HR-218 Certificate

[micro911]

If I go to Las Vagas, can I still carry inside the casinos? I am not sure, but I heard civilian CCW license holders cannot be armed in the casinos. I wonder if retired law enforcement with LEOSA/HR-218 certificate has the same restriction.

[sacmedic01]

If me memory serves, the casino issue is one of trespass, not legal authority to carry. As I understand it all CCW and/or LEO (active or retired) can CCW within them. The issue is their security will order you to leave once they realize you're armed. Failure to do so is trespass but the activity of legally carrying is safe.


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[bryanmc]

My former agency (DHS/ICE) issues a LEOSA ID to retired agents who qualify. It used to be renewed yearly, but now has a 5 year validity. The requirement for yearly qualification still remains (obviously). Here in Texas, the instructors you shoot with still put the make/model of the weapon you qualified with on the certificate instead of type, but it would not be hard to justify any pistol if the card says "Glock Model 19" since it is in fact a pistol and not a revolver.

I do have a question though... If I am a non resident of California, visiting or passing through the state for business or pleasure and carrying a weapon under LEOSA, am I allowed to bring hi cap mags with me?

[bigger hammer]

We carry two ID cards. One is the "Agency ID Card" that states my name, rank, Date of Retirement, and this sentence, "This Peace Officer is CCW Approved."

There is a separate ID card that talks about having "demonstrated proficiency" and specifically lists the firearms by brand, model and caliber, that I'm permitted to carry. The Chief allows us to name 5 guns. Both cards have to be renewed annually.

• Colt 1911 .45
• S&W 642 .38
• Seecamp LWS32 .32
• Glock 19 9mm
• CZ VA-75 9mm

I told them that they can simply list "semi-auto and revolver," but the Chief wanted it this way and he has the final word.

[CSACANNONEER]

It sure sounds like someone in the know should make up a brochure to pass out to retirees listing the general guidelines of HR218 and leaving a blank space for each agency to fill in their own specific requirements or processes. It could be handed out to each retiree with their retirement credentials.

[micro911]

We carry two ID cards. One is the "Agency ID Card" that states my name, rank, Date of Retirement, and this sentence, "This Peace Officer is CCW Approved."

There is a separate ID card that talks about having "demonstrated proficiency" and specifically lists the firearms by brand, model and caliber, that I'm permitted to carry. The Chief allows us to name 5 guns. Both cards have to be renewed annually.

• Colt 1911 .45
• S&W 642 .38
• Seecamp LWS32 .32
• Glock 19 9mm
• CZ VA-75 9mm

I told them that they can simply list "semi-auto and revolver," but the Chief wanted it this way and he has the final word.

My agency retirement ID CCW is good for 5 years, and it does not specify firearm type. My HR-218 certificate does not specify the specific firearm, although I qualified with both pistol and revolver. I guess I have a wide range of firearm choices. I will primarily carry Glock 19 and M&P Shield. Or, H&K VP9.

[micro911]

MY other question:

When I go camping or make long trips, I always carry a rifle and a shogun. I will typically carry a Ruger Mini-14 or Marlin 44 Mag lever gun, and a Remington 870 12 Gauge. Is it legal to take them out of state trips? I used to do that before I retire, but I don't know the status change affects the long gun carry in a vehicle.

[Librarian]

I do have a question though... If I am a non resident of California, visiting or passing through the state for business or pleasure and carrying a weapon under LEOSA, am I allowed to bring hi cap mags with me?

There's an argument that magazines are an essential part of the weapon (People v Hale, 1974). If that would be true, then authorized for weapon includes whatever magazines.

Given current trends in CA, I would suggest leaving 10+ mags out of state. Detection and subsequent prosecution of LEOS on this point does seem to be very remote, but CA is pretty strange sometimes.

[RickD427]

There's an argument that magazines are an essential part of the weapon (People v Hale, 1974). If that would be true, then authorized for weapon includes whatever magazines.

Given current trends in CA, I would suggest leaving 10+ mags out of state. Detection and subsequent prosecution of LEOS on this point does seem to be very remote, but CA is pretty strange sometimes.

^^^THIS^^^

Also please note that the U.S. DOJ has opined that LEOSA does not cover magazines.

I would personally disagree, but my opinion is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Hale is a California case that runs counter to the USDOJ position. But simple bottom line is that it costs too much to be the test case.

[micro911]

^^^THIS^^^

Also please note that the U.S. DOJ has opined that LEOSA does not cover magazines.

I would personally disagree, but my opinion is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Hale is a California case that runs counter to the USDOJ position. But simple bottom line is that it costs too much to be the test case.

I think the magazine capacity is a moot point when the shooting is justifiable. For the many cases I have worked, magazine capacity issue on handgun was never brought up other than unauthorized magazines for department issued firearms. However, I have never worked on an out of state officer involved shooting.

But then, when city of Los Angeles enacted the high capacity magazine ban, they did not exempt off duty officers or retired officers. So, if you stopped by the city after work to meet someone, and if you carried a 15 round mag in your SIG P226, you are committing a crime. I heard this law was recanted since, but I am not sure. Maybe someone can shine some light on this.

[AR15Man]

I finally took care of the HR-218 certificate. They gave me one at the BC range. Now, I am official here in California, and other states, with both pistol and revolver. I feel better.

Congrats Micro,

Don't forget to update your professional liability insurance as more than likely your previous policy no longer covers you under HR-218.

I'd recommend you join the local FOP Lodge and they're up to date on HR-218 and offer a decent PLI for retirees. The FOP HR-218 Plan has POC's in most of all States to cover you while your traveling.

ARM

Btw, you can always by a vacation home in a gun friendly State and spend half of the year to use that State's firearms' laws. I ALSO HEARD THAT ARIZONA IS FULL..... THEY'RE IN HE PROCESS OF BUILDING CHECKPOINTS ON I-10 AND I-8 FOR ALL YOU NEW L/E RETIREES AND WILL CONFISCATE ALL 10 ROUND MAGAZINES FOUND IN YOUR POSSESSION......j/k

[AR15Man]

^^^THIS^^^

Also please note that the U.S. DOJ has opined that LEOSA does not cover magazines.

I would personally disagree, but my opinion is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Hale is a California case that runs counter to the USDOJ position. But simple bottom line is that it costs too much to be the test case.

Legal Counsel gave me the opinion that if you're authorized under LEOSA to carry a firearm and such firearm came from the factory with the factory installed magazine it should be a moot point, regardless of magazine's capacity.

But like the other's have stated, there have only been legal opinions published on the magazine issue and have no standing as of yet.

[micro911]

Congrats Micro,

Don't forget to update your professional liability insurance as more than likely your previous policy no longer covers you under HR-218.

I'd recommend you join the local FOP Lodge and they're up to date on HR-218 and offer a decent PLI for retirees. The FOP HR-218 Plan has POC's in most of all States to cover you while your traveling.

ARM

Btw, you can always by a vacation home in a gun friendly State and spend half of the year to use that State's firearms' laws. I ALSO HEARD THAT ARIZONA IS FULL..... THEY'RE IN HE PROCESS OF BUILDING CHECKPOINTS ON I-10 AND I-8 FOR ALL YOU NEW L/E RETIREES AND WILL CONFISCATE ALL 10 ROUND MAGAZINES FOUND IN YOUR POSSESSION......j/k

I have never thought about the insurance. I wonder which company carries such insurance.

[003]

Join PORAC as a retired (RAM) member. They have excellent ccw coverage. $78.00 a year for RAM membership and excellent CCW coverage.

http://porac.org/wp-content/uploads/PORAC_RAM_Brochure_Final_6-11-2015.pdf?14c6b9

"Membership open to any retired peace officer throughout the US"

So, for $78.00 a year a retired cop can join PORAC as a retired member and get excellent CCW insurance coverage.

[joefrank64k]

The PORAC RAM coverage is an excellent value, I have it and I encourage every retiree to get it.

It's important to note that it doesn't provide any liability coverage, it's strictly legal coverage. Make sure you've got adequate liability insurance, too.