Article on LASD M&P 9 accidental discharges

[camaroguy2012]

In post #6 you made an unqualified statement as to the cause of the ND issue. Your statement was incorrect and you were called out on it. No one "attacked" or "insulted" you. The insults started on post #27 when you accused someone of being "butthurt" when they called you out on your incorrect and unqualified statement, which we've now learned was based on zero knowledge of the training of the department in question.

Im so glad you are the unequivical lasd firearms expert that you can deem my statement as incorrect without having to post any actual evidence to support your claim and yet i have graciously posted your own assist sheriff mimicing ehat i have stated yet someone he is right and I am wrong, and the manner in which i was "called out" was indeed an attackbut its pretty clear you have blinders on. But please continue digging your hole i suppose at this point you are so deep there is no getting out

[SoCalDep]

Previous Post

His statement is correct and not the same thing you have been asserting. He said the NDs are predominantly from those originally issued a Beretta. You have claimed it is custody deputies going to patrol. You are wrong and he is correct.

Your response

Thats not even close to what i have been saying and its again sharply calling i to question your ability to discuss anything like an adult. Congrats

From Post #6

What you have hear is deputies who were trained in the academy 4-5 years ago with the beretta, worked the jails unarmed and are now on the street with a new weapon they are not trained in.

From Post #35

No i didnt say that you made an assumption and are putting words into my mouth, i said deputies who went thru the academy before the transition were trained on beretta 92 and were then spending 4 to 5 years unarmed in the jail and then transitioned to the mp9 a new weapons system...

From Post #59

Right because in the real world your opinion matters to me, once again you guys are the one skirting the issues, the whole thread is about lasd cant seem to figure out how to use a new weapons system, and i simply had the opinion that the deputies coming out of the jails who trained 4 to 5 years ago in the academy on berettas are now carrying a new weapon that some might be unfamiliar with. Thats a pretty logical train of thought actually and if you werent so sensative you might see that. I know why most lasd are laughed at by other agencies and you guys are doing a stellar job of proving why

From Post #93

And what exactly did i say? That lasd trained on the beretta before switching to MP, true, LASD dep start in the jail and will on average do 4 to 5 years, also true, deputies in the jail are unarmed as it is a controlled enviornment, which is why you have to download your weapons into a gunlocker when bringing in an arrestee from the street, also true, that the transition school to MP is probably 2 to 3 days on the range, true but then for some reason you guys think this is super secret squirrel info. So where exactly did i post any false firearms training?

From Post #110

...Now pay attention, the MP transition is fairly new right? Now most of the guys, i say most, not all fyi, going to patrol now have worked the jail, which is an unarmed position because jails are secure areas. Now i know there are certaintimes they will carry like during transports n such but largely a deps time in jail is unarmed. Now before they switch the the MP they were trained in the academy on the 92fs. So during the academy they trained, shot and carried a beretta and were accustomed to them, then they were allowed to transition to the MP, so they went to the school happy as clams, and are now authorized to carry it. Now they leave the jail for patrol and are carrying their brand spankin new MP which is different then the beretta they trained and became familiar with...

[camaroguy2012]

Lolz okay once again thanks for proving my point while doing nothing to disprove anything ive said. Your own assist sheriff stated guys who were trained on the beretta are now having NDs from the new MPs....which is what ive stated... Good luck

[camaroguy2012]

Socaldep, the lasd has been issuimg the MP since 2012 to new recruits going thru the academy right? Now the majority of deps after the academy go in the jail for at least 3 to 4 years correct? Or even over 5 or more, so you really think its a coincicldence that the number suddenly jumped in 2014 when the majority of deps coming from the jail are going into patrol having went thru the academy trained on the beretta but then did the transition school prior to going on patrol. I am aware that they do not state in the article how many years of patrol the 22 MP NDs had prior to the NDs but in no way does that make what i am saying untrue.

[veeklog]

Veek, i understand what you are sayimg an i agree, but im not the one attacking here, i was called out on page 1 for not being an leo and i find that offensive ive given 15 years of my life patrolling, getting shot at, rammed, broken bones and torn every uniform ive owned from my work so excuse me if i get offended when my livelyhood is called in to question by a bunch of internet tough guys

No problem brother; we are arguing over a LA Times news story which make no sense at all. When do we argue about something the LA Times wrote?!? The make us out to be overgrown oafs who are just goons with authority. I have worked with genius', and one if them is worth all their entire news staff.

All I am saying is we are professionals, so let us keep it professional. We can always agree to disagree, but I would be insulted and angry too if someone attacked my agency based in a news article from a less than scrupulous choice. Talk to the LASD Personnel and training staff and I am sure the problems have been addressed and in the process of being corrected.

Just my .02 cents

[camaroguy2012]

No problem brother; we are arguing over a LA Times news story which make no sense at all. When do we argue about something the LA Times wrote?!? The make us out to be overgrown oafs who are just goons with authority. I have worked with genius', and one if them is worth all their entire news staff.

All I am saying is we are professionals, so let us keep it professional. We can always agree to disagree, but I would be insulted and angry too if someone attacked my agency based in a news article from a less than scrupulous choice. Talk to the LASD Personnel and training staff and I am sure the problems have been addressed and in the process of being corrected.

Just my .02 cents

Honestly i dont see how saying guys who are new to patrol with a new weapon system couldbe the problem would be an attack? Clearly it is an issue as was acknowledged by their own assist sheriff. Im sorry the deps here were so shaken by my comments but honestly its a logical assumption based onthe circumstances

[SoCalDep]

Socaldep, the lasd has been issuimg the MP since 2012 to new recruits going thru the academy right? Now the majority of deps after the academy go in the jail for at least 3 to 4 years correct? Or even over 5 or more, so you really think its a coincicldence that the number suddenly jumped in 2014 when the majority of deps coming from the jail are going into patrol having went thru the academy trained on the beretta but then did the transition school prior to going on patrol. I am aware that they do not state in the article how many years of patrol the 22 MP NDs had prior to the NDs but in no way does that make what i am saying untrue.

As I have said TWICE, very few custody deputies have participated in the conversion. The "majority" of "deps coming from the jail" are NOT going into patrol having went thru [sic] the academy trained on the beretta [sic] but then did the transition school prior to going on patrol."

While there are a few custody deputies who have been converted, the vast majority will use the handgun with which they were trained in the academy when they go to patrol. There is a small percentage who have chosen an alternate or optional duty handgun and have completed the optional handgun course. Neither of these groups are the problem. As I said before... Deputies are not being converted to the M&P in patrol school.

[camaroguy2012]

As I have said TWICE, very few custody deputies have participated in the conversion. The "majority" of "deps coming from the jail" are NOT going into patrol having went thru [sic] the academy trained on the beretta [sic] but then did the transition school prior to going on patrol."

While there are a few custody deputies who have been converted, the vast majority will use the handgun with which they were trained in the academy when they go to patrol. There is a small percentage who have chosen an alternate or optional duty handgun and have completed the optional handgun course. Neither of these groups are the problem. As I said before... Deputies are not being converted to the M&P in patrol school.

So we are just supposed to take your word on this? As its not what i have heard from the deps i know... And it seems your own assist sheriff disagrees with you as he is stating the NDs are from deps trained on berettas and switching to MPs, so clearly many are NOT patroling with what they were trained on...

[SoCalDep]

So we are just supposed to take your word on this? As its not what i have heard from the deps i know... And it seems your own assist sheriff disagrees with you as he is stating the NDs are from deps trained on berettas and switching to MPs, so clearly many are NOT patroling with what they were trained on...

Agreed that deputies participating in the conversion are "patroling [sic]" with a handgun that is not what they used in the academy...That's sorta the point of a "conversion". The statement "clearly many are NOT patroling [sic] with what they were trained on..." implies they were not trained in the new firearm. A more accurate sentence might be that many deputies are not patrolling with the same firearm with which they received academy training. That I can agree with.

I've clearly stated my argument. You just ignore the differences in the statement of the Assistant Sheriff and your argument regarding deputies going to patrol. Your statements clearly show a lack of knowledge but heavy judgment towards LASD. I've pointed out that your post was wrong, you were called on it by multiple members of the LASD and YOU initiated the personal attacks in post # 27. If you are sad we don't respect your fifteen years of experience... Be worthy of respect. Thus far from your posts you are not.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

i find that offensive ive given 15 years of my life patrolling, getting shot at, rammed, broken bones and torn every uniform ive owned from my work so excuse me if i get offended when my livelyhood is called in to question by a bunch of internet tough guys

My patrol war stories are not nearly as exciting as that.

[Tripper]

Do cops get in trouble for cop bashing here

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Do cops get in trouble for cop bashing here

Actually, that hasn't happened in this thread once.

[veeklog]

Jeez, this thread is out of control! Honestly, who cares what the assistant sheriffs says?!? He hasn't been on patrol since they were driving Ford LTD's!! The issue is being addressed , and that is the important part.

As far as personal attacks, everyone knows other people besides non-sworn personnel look at this board, right?

[Bobby Ricigliano]

As far as personal attacks, everyone knows other people besides non-sworn personnel look at this board, right?

Non-LEO's are always welcome in these threads to post opinions and ask questions. Trolls fraudulently identifying themselves as LEO's are a different story.

[TOM_ONE]

Is it true that LASO only does use of force training 1x per year? My Dept does it 4x/yr.