Article on LASD M&P 9 accidental discharges

[Rico911]

[seal20]

11th thread regarding this.

Thank you

[WyattandDoc]

I haven't read one of them and was very curious how that weapon was working out. Had no idea they switched due to failing recruit lawsuits.

Thanks for posting this!!

[balance]

I found this interesting also. Thanks for posting.

[Rico911]

I didn't know about that lawsuit threat also. I don't think a department as large as LASD would make such a change under a threat of a lawsuit. I do know average and below average shooters are scoring higher with the new pistol. I also have been present for an unintentional discharge. Very disheartening.

[camaroguy2012]

What you have hear is deputies who were trained in the academy 4-5 years ago with the beretta, worked the jails unarmed and are now on the street with a new weapon they are not trained in.

[seal20]

Sooooooo, I guess with the Beretta they were trained to search closets with their finger on the trigger?

[micro911]

I believe the problem is the finger on the trigger...for the most part.

[Rico911]

Regardless of training, not all sworn LEO's are gun enthusiasts (unfortunately). In large departments, training is too far and few. This just compounds things.

[1911su16b870]

POST LD35 clearly states "Always keep fingers off the trigger until ready to fire the firearm".

The original LA Times article mentioned that this is a training scar.

[John M]

Rico911.. you hit the nail on the head..

[stormvet]

Regardless of training, not all sworn LEO's are gun enthusiasts (unfortunately). In large departments, training is too far and few. This just compounds things.

This is true, but not all gun enthusiasts have any formal training. Matter of fact I would guess that the vast majority have no training at all and have far more negligent discharges then LE. But nobody ever records that or writes articles on it. LE live under a microscope, civilian gun enthusiast's do not.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

You are talking about 30 in a department of about 15k, and a good majority of those work unarmed in the jail. They do 5 or 6 years in the jail unarmed and then go into patrol and since they recently changed to the MP9 most of those probably trained in the academy with the beretta.

What you have hear is deputies who were trained in the academy 4-5 years ago with the beretta, worked the jails unarmed and are now on the street with a new weapon they are not trained in.

Do you work for LASD?

The amount of time deputies work in the jails varies widely. Some do a year, some do 10 years. Some go to patrol almost immediately after the academy, and some never go. While most positions inside the jails are unarmed, firearms proficiency must be maintained at the same standard as patrol deputies.

Your posts suggest that folks are trading in their Berettas for M&P's without any additional training. This is completely false. First of all, those who were trained with Berettas can stick with those if preferred, and the M&P is optional. For those who elect to transition to the M&P, there is required conversion training that must be completed before the M&P can be carried on or off duty.

Whether recruits trained in the academy with the Beretta or the M&P, they fire a lot of rounds and are drilled exhaustively on the basics of safe gun handling which are universal to all platforms. Instances of AD / ND's can be attributed to individual negligence and carelessness. They are not the result of poor training or weapon unfamiliarity.

By the way, the number of sworn personnel is far less than 15K. In fact, it is on average less than 10K.

[camaroguy2012]

Do you work for LASD?

The amount of time deputies work in the jails varies widely. Some do a year, some do 10 years. Some go to patrol almost immediately after the academy, and some never go. While most positions inside the jails are unarmed, firearms proficiency must be maintained at the same standard as patrol deputies.

Your posts suggest that folks are trading in their Berettas for M&P's without any additional training. This is completely false. First of all, those who were trained with Berettas can stick with those if preferred, and the M&P is optional. For those who elect to transition to the M&P, there is required conversion training that must be completed before the M&P can be carried on or off duty.

Whether recruits trained in the academy with the Beretta or the M&P, they fire a lot of rounds and are drilled exhaustively on the basics of safe gun handling which are universal to all platforms. Instances of AD / ND's can be attributed to individual negligence and carelessness. They are not the result of poor training or weapon unfamiliarity.

By the way, the number of sworn personnel is far less than 15K. In fact, it is on average less than 10K.

Does it matter? Clearly something has occured for the # of AD, i am merely pointing out an obvious answer for it, whether it is accurate for all or not i dont know, thats why its hypothetical, i personally dont go around blaming the gun for ADs,

Either that or the only other explanation is the LASD deputies are poorly trained as i never heard of this problem when LAPD switched to glock

[Cantbeme]

Is it really and accident if the person pulls the trigger? If they're sending Officers out with new weapons and no additional training, I'd say that's negligence on the part of those responsible for the training, if it's Officers running around with their fingers on the trigger then it's negligence on their part. Either way, easily solved issue by training and familiarizing Officers with their new side arm.