Article on LASD M&P 9 accidental discharges

[roostersgt]

LEO's may have slightly different political views etc... but when it comes to common experiences like firearms training and training in particular, we all sing the same tune. Thats what gives you away as not being a LEO. Your comments show a remarkable lack of experience in how modern day California LEA's train and the over training due to liability and failure to train lawsuits that have been lost in the past. I've been around a long time and can tell when someone doesn't know what they're talking about, and you don't. I can vouch for SoCalDep simply based upon one of the schools he mentioned in an earlier post. Who the hell would ever mention NIMS with all those other *****in' schools but a real cop. I really hated all that table top stuff and multi-agencies exercises. Surprised he didn't mention SIMS also.

BTW, what's a "regular" LEO here?

[SoCalDep]

PMs are cool but they really don't matter when it comes to answering simple questions. You have neglected to answer ANY of my questions. You didn't even defend your supposed rank. I'm all about differing opinions, hell... ask my partners. That said, it should come from a perspective of knowledge and not emotion or bias. There is bias everywhere, but by refusing to state any background in firearms training, you have failed to justify your opinion to others here on this forum. Yes...Sometimes we're mean and people get butthurt when they hear reality knock on the door. The fact you have received PMs from "a few people" and not "a few cops" or "a few of the guys who worked for me (you)" is quite telling.

I put myself out there... way more than you... and you still want to play games. The funny thing is that this is no longer about the original topic of this thread. Constructive conversation died early in this thread. In post number 6 you made a claim that is incorrect and ignorant and since then it's been you trying to defend it. We're at over 90 posts now. Apparently, to you, this thread is about bashing rather than constructive discussion. This is why, after many days, I got involved. I held off as I have on numerous other forums where discussions have involved those who are not law enforcement because people have a right to their opinions and it wouldn't be good for me to discuss details. My posts are not about the issue but about the members of this forum and the specific statements of someone who purports to be a law enforcement officer... and supervisor no less.

Simple questions usually necessitate simple answers.

What is your experience in law enforcement firearm training?

[camaroguy2012]

LEO's may have slightly different political views etc... but when it comes to common experiences like firearms training and training in particular, we all sing the same tune. Thats what gives you away as not being a LEO. Your comments show a remarkable lack of experience in how modern day California LEA's train and the over training due to liability and failure to train lawsuits that have been lost in the past. I've been around a long time and can tell when someone doesn't know what they're talking about, and you don't. I can vouch for SoCalDep simply based upon one of the schools he mentioned in an earlier post. Who the hell would ever mention NIMS with all those other *****in' schools but a real cop. I really hated all that table top stuff and multi-agencies exercises. Surprised he didn't mention SIMS also.

BTW, what's a "regular" LEO here?

And what exactly did i say? That lasd trained on the beretta before switching to MP, true, LASD dep start in the jail and will on average do 4 to 5 years, also true, deputies in the jail are unarmed as it is a controlled enviornment, which is why you have to download your weapons into a gunlocker when bringing in an arrestee from the street, also true, that the transition school to MP is probably 2 to 3 days on the range, true but then for some reason you guys think this is super secret squirrel info. So where exactly did i post any false firearms training?

[camaroguy2012]

PMs are cool but they really don't matter when it comes to answering simple questions. You have neglected to answer ANY of my questions. You didn't even defend your supposed rank. I'm all about differing opinions, hell... ask my partners. That said, it should come from a perspective of knowledge and not emotion or bias. There is bias everywhere, but by refusing to state any background in firearms training, you have failed to justify your opinion to others here on this forum. Yes...Sometimes we're mean and people get butthurt when they hear reality knock on the door. The fact you have received PMs from "a few people" and not "a few cops" or "a few of the guys who worked for me (you)" is quite telling.

I put myself out there... way more than you... and you still want to play games. The funny thing is that this is no longer about the original topic of this thread. Constructive conversation died early in this thread. In post number 6 you made a claim that is incorrect and ignorant and since then it's been you trying to defend it. We're at over 90 posts now. Apparently, to you, this thread is about bashing rather than constructive discussion. This is why, after many days, I got involved. I held off as I have on numerous other forums where discussions have involved those who are not law enforcement because people have a right to their opinions and it wouldn't be good for me to discuss details. My posts are not about the issue but about the members of this forum and the specific statements of someone who purports to be a law enforcement officer... and supervisor no less.

Simple questions usually necessitate simple answers.

What is your experience in law enforcement firearm training?

Good for you, you get a gold star

[roostersgt]

And what exactly did i say? That lasd trained on the beretta before switching to MP, true, LASD dep start in the jail and will on average do 4 to 5 years, also true, deputies in the jail are unarmed as it is a controlled enviornment, which is why you have to download your weapons into a gunlocker when bringing in an arrestee from the street, also true, that the transition school to MP is probably 2 to 3 days on the range, true but then for some reason you guys think this is super secret squirrel info. So where exactly did i post any false firearms training?

The point I made is you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, they spend time in the jail, but they receive the same firearms training/transition training and have to qualify with the same firearms just as regularly as a patrol deputy etc... All training is STANDARDIZED throughout the departments employees who are issued firearms. This is not a "secret", but I doubt any department would provide an individual with a syllabus detailing the instruction. If you truly were a LEO, a sergeant, you'd already know this doctrine. There are not two, three or four sets of rules for the different jobs deputies may be assigned, with the exception of SWAT/SED units. Same goes with PD's and the CHP. There is no way you could be a real "sergeant" in a police, sheriff's department or Highway Patrol office and not know this. It's SOP in every real police agency.

[camaroguy2012]

The point I made is you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, they spend time in the jail, but they receive the same firearms training/transition training and have to qualify with the same firearms just as regularly as a patrol deputy etc... All training is STANDARDIZED throughout the departments employees who are issued firearms. This is not a "secret", but I doubt any department would provide an individual with a syllabus detailing the instruction. If you truly were a LEO, a sergeant, you'd already know this doctrine. There are not two, three or four sets of rules for the different jobs deputies may be assigned, with the exception of SWAT/SED units. Same goes with PD's and the CHP. There is no way you could be a real "sergeant" in a police, sheriff's department or Highway Patrol office and not know this. It's SOP in every real police agency.

So basically nothing you said shows what i said is wrong so congrats, all you are doing is making generalized statements and using this as a basis for saying ive never been a cop despite the fact ive validated it so its making you look even more sad. You are basically just spewing garbage

[roostersgt]

An image of a badge / shield is not validation, a department ID might be. Anyone can download images of badges. Everything I posted shows you don't know diddly about how the LASD, or how any other LEA is trained in the use and transition to firearms platforms, at least regarding California police agencies, like city police, sheriff and state police.

[camaroguy2012]

An image of a badge / shield is not validation, a department ID might be. Anyone can download images of badges. Everything I posted shows you don't know diddly about how the LASD, or how any other LEA is trained in the use and transition to firearms platforms, at least regarding California police agencies, like city police, sheriff and state police.

No nothing really, youve made up some things that i havent said and tried to put worda in my mouth but really you are just spewing garbage. And please by all means google it and try and find the image, you wont because its on my phone genius.

[SoCalDep]

So basically nothing you said shows what i said is wrong so congrats, all you are doing is making generalized statements and using this as a basis for saying ive never been a cop despite the fact ive validated it so its making you look even more sad. You are basically just spewing garbage

I'm saying you are wrong.

You still refuse to answer questions. You still disgrace that Sgt's badge by failing to understand that you don't have the whole story and still trying to rake cops over the coals. I won't say you weren't a cop, but I will say that the word "Sergeant" on that badge is ill-deserved based on your behavior here. Now it appears you have deleted the badge picture that was in post #75. That's funny because rather than defending the badge and the rank, you deleted it. Pride....not.



I will ask again...

Is the LA Times the authority?

What is your experience in law enforcement firearms training?

[camaroguy2012]

I'm saying you are wrong.

You still refuse to answer questions. You still disgrace that Sgt's badge by failing to understand that you don't have the whole story and still trying to rake cops over the coals. I won't say you weren't a cop, but I will say that the word "Sergeant" on that badge is ill-deserved based on your behavior here. Now it appears you have deleted the badge picture that was in post #75. That's funny because rather than defending the badge and the rank, you deleted it. Pride....not.



I will ask again...

Is the LA Times the authority?

What is your experience in law enforcement firearms training?

Are you high? Who have i raked ovee the coals? Saying that some cops might not be familiar with the weapon thats resulted in documented NDs isnt raking anyone over the coals, if anyone should be embarrassed its you and a few others, i have nothing to defend. I have never said the la times is the authority on anything, unless they are wrong that there were a higher number of NDs after the transition? So now you are saying the story is false and that there are not any NDs? Seriously you are looking more and more ridiculous and hve posted nothing other then to brag about your resume, congrats you are part of the problem. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth its simply sad.

[camaroguy2012]

Oh and you can claim "operator error" is responsible all you want but all the means is, not properly trained...

[SoCalDep]

Are you high? Who have i raked ovee the coals?

The entire LASD through your comments regarding training, indictments, and your general anti-law enforcement attitude. I'm not high, nor is anyone else reading this. It's clear. Edit your posts all you want...There are enough quotes and copies for anyone to see your game.

Saying that some cops might not be familiar with the weapon thats resulted in documented NDs isnt raking anyone over the coals, if anyone should be embarrassed its you and a few others, i have nothing to defend.

Straw man argument. How fun. Talk crap then say you were "innocently" questioning NDs. I am embarrassed if it makes you feel better. I'm open to discussion. I'm not so open to accusations and ignorant claims based on the "education" of reading a newspaper article. Your tone, your approach, and your attitude are unbecoming of an unbiased individual searching for the truth, and unbecoming of a supervisor of law enforcement... if that is what you were.

I have never said the la times is the authority on anything, unless they are wrong that there were a higher number of NDs after the transition? So now you are saying the story is false and that there are not any NDs?

Yet it is the ENTIRE basis of your argument. Only NOW do you ask if the article was wrong...That could have happened at... Oh... I don't know... Maybe post NUMBER 6??? But it didn't. Now you start trying to reach to find fact... But regardless of reality, we are aware you care not of it.

Seriously you are looking more and more ridiculous and hve posted nothing other then to brag about your resume, congrats you are part of the problem. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth its simply sad.

Nope... Only posted to put things in context... Yet you haven't responded to any of my questions, or several of the other questions posted throughout this thread. This situation is a direct result of your inability to view this subject from an unbiased perspective, thus, why would anyone want to have a reasonable discussion with someone who has displayed such a staunch and disparaging biased perspective.

I would not expect someone to discuss the specific engineering requirements to launch a rocket into space with me. Why should I be expected to discuss the specific needs of law enforcement training with someone who obviously obtained their sole basis of information (because they are wrong in every assertion made regarding LASD policy and practice) on an LA Times article and has yet to respond to repeated requests to determine if they have specific knowledge on the subject.

To be fair, I'll ask again...

What is your experience in law enforcement firearm training?

[CBR_rider]

Awww, anyone else check into this thread hoping to see three pages of relevant discussion about the OP?

This thread gets a negative vote

[Thesource161]

Deputies that work in the jail are unarmed and don't carry weapons, but are still held to the same firearm standards as everyone else. There is spots in custody that require you to carry a firearm. Deputies transport bodies from the facility down to Hospitals or even down to IRC. I've seen deputies who can't handle a weapon at all but yet still wear one and have passed all the qualifying scenerios they have had to pass quarterly.

Yeck, I've seen a deputy only load ten rounds into their gun and leave it unloaded because they said it was lighter and easier to carry.

Imo I believe it's usually user error. Yes the trigger is lighter and the mp is easier to shoot, but guns don't usually go off on their own. There may be a few on occasion that accidentally go off, but if you have your finger on the trigger and pull it, it's going to go BANG!!!

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Awww, anyone else check into this thread hoping to see three pages of relevant discussion about the OP?

This thread gets a negative vote

This thread gets a positive vote from me for publicly outing a fraud pretending to be an LEO. Grab a cup, get comfortable, and read his posts. It is like peeling an onion: it spans from a semi-coherent attempt at credibility at the beginning to unabashed and unfiltered stupidity by the end.

To his credit, most imposters would get a clue and just slither away. He sticks around and continues to implode. Hilarity ensues.