Foreign visitors with Visas cant shoot at the range

[Jimi Jah]

NO THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

That only is true for the 38 countries on the VWP, for people who are here as tourists and have not otherwise violated the terms of their status.

I assume there are hundreds of thousands of people from VWP countries who are here on non-immigrant visas. That includes students, H-1B workers, people doing paid musical performances, journalists, consular staff and many many more. "I'm from a VWP country so I'm ok to shoot" is not true at all.

If the RO wants to keep it simple and cover things reasonably well he should ask this flowchart style questionnaire:

1. Are you a prohibited person? If yes, can't shoot
2. Are you a citizen? you're good to go
3. Are you out of status in any way? If yes, can't shoot
4. Are you here without a visa? If yes, good to go
5. Are you here on a greencard? If yes, good to go
6. You are here on a non-immigrant visa. If you have a hunting permit, or some other very unusual exceptions, good to go
7. Otherwise, can't shoot

So now an RO needs to be a trained immigration officer. I would think the informed owners would just cut all foreigners off to avoid any legal traps. But as we know, money talks.

[CCWFacts]

So now an RO needs to be a trained immigration officer.

Guns are highly regulated and the regulations are complex and not always logical and technical violations are usually felonies. Such is the reality of our system.

I can dream that they would have an infraction system (like getting a $200 ticket) for certain technical gun violations where there's no criminal intent, but that isn't how it works.

I would think the informed owners would just cut all foreigners off to avoid any legal traps.

That would be reasonable. If I owned a range, I would either have a web flowchart questionaire to fill in before coming, or just say, citizens only. Simple and safe rules are the most practical.

But as we know, money talks.

I guess. My local range always has a line. They wouldn't lose money if they cut off foreigners.

[CCWFacts]

And lack of enforcement didn't stop federal prosecutors from bringing charges against a couple of guys from Saudi Arabia for renting guns in San Diego County.

Wow, that definitely confirms to me, don't bring tourist friends to the range without being careful to dot all the Is and cross all the Ts. That really is awful for these guys. They showed ID, filled in forms, and were allowed in by the RO, who then proceeded to call the cops on them. Cold...

Even if it's a one in a million risk, I don't want it. A PA non-res hunting license is $101 and takes 3 minute to get on line.

[alexisjohnson]

Wow, that definitely confirms to me, don't bring tourist friends to the range without being careful to dot all the Is and cross all the Ts. That really is awful for these guys. They showed ID, filled in forms, and were allowed in by the RO, who then proceeded to call the cops on them. Cold...

That is a pretty low and dirty move by the poway range owner. He claimed that he became suspicious because they were filming. I see people filming there all the time.

If someone is actually acting suspicious...then thats fine. But don't let people in....take their money, and then roll them on some chicken%%%% law

[alexisjohnson]

I guess. My local range always has a line. They wouldn't lose money if they cut off foreigners.

The thing is foreigners aren't like regular customers. They come in and rent a bunch of expensive guns and ammo. I have regularly seen people from germany or japan drop 200-300 bucks for an hour or two of shooting (for 2 or 3 people)