Foreign visitors with Visas cant shoot at the range

[fiddletown]

Never been a issue for my friends and family.

The law is what it is. If someone has been doing things which are illegal and hasn't gotten into trouble, it doesn't change what the law is. It only means he hasn't been caught yet. And that's no guarantee that he won't be caught and prosecuted in the future.

Whenever someone commits a crime he is betting his freedom, fortune, and future on not getting caught. The prisons are full of people who didn't think they'd get caught.

If someone understands what the law is and chooses to violate it anyway, getting caught will be his problem and his family's problem. But at least it won't be my problem.

Just for reference, the penalty for being a prohibited person in possession of a gun or ammunition is a fine and/or up to ten years in federal prison. The penalty for aiding and abetting would be the same. And of course since it's a felony the penalty includes a lifetime loss of gun rights.

[randomBytes]

fiddletown - this is CA; apparently we only need to obey the laws we like
just ask the governor

[rice_man]

The gay bay area has it's own constitution and laws. Come down south, they let anyone with ID shoot here. Out in the desert no ID required.

Not in Poway.

Two Saudi Arabian nationals have been arrested and a third is wanted for illegally renting firearms and purchasing ammunition at a shooting range in Poway.
Saad Mutlak Alsahli, Muath Ahmed Alraqibah and Abdulrahman Abdullah Alolaymi rented a Sig Sauer 9mm pistol and a Bravo .223 caliber rifle and bought 100 rounds of .223 caliber ammunition and 50 rounds of 9mm ammunition at the Poway Weapons and Gear gun range for target practice, according to a Southern District of California court complaint.
...

The men are in the county on F-1 non-immigrant student visas. Under that visa, they are not allowed to possess firearms and ammunition without a valid permit. State records show none of the men had any permit for the firearms, the complaint says.

[fiddletown]

How do those ranges in Vegas allow all those foreign Asians to shoot when they come there on vacation?

Again, the law is what it is, and I have no idea. Maybe they have a side business selling hunting licenses.

[fiddletown]

I've taken foreign nationals shooting plenty of times no problem.
Some photo id is all they needed IIRC - even foreign DL.

Congratulations on your confession of committing the federal crime of aiding and abetting the unlawful possession of a gun or ammunition by a prohibited person.

[fiddletown]

fiddletown - this is CA; apparently we only need to obey the laws we like...

If you have the bad luck to be prosecuted try that on the judge. I’m sure it will fix things for you.

[eigenstate]

About a year ago I saw some article in a crap paper (LA times I think) reporting on "birth tourism" from Chinese women. They quote that the packages included trips to a shooting range.

I guess that might be a way to scare a baby out of someone, but I don't think taking a pregnant woman shooting is super smart. Now I find out it is also against the law if she is Chinese. A bullsht law to be sure, but still.

I'll see if I can find the article and post the link.

[eigenstate]

About a year ago I saw some article in a crap paper (LA times I think) reporting on "birth tourism" from Chinese women. They quote that the packages included trips to a shooting range.

I guess that might be a way to scare a baby out of someone, but I don't think taking a pregnant woman shooting is super smart. Now I find out it is also against the law if she is Chinese. A bullsht law to be sure, but still.

I'll see if I can find the article and post the link.

Here is one

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/chinese-maternity-tourists-and-the-business-of-being-born-american

This articles says that only the husbands got trips to the shooting range. Well, if they liked it, maybe we can trade them for one our own little tyrants that are constantly shoving more and more draconian gun laws down our throats. I bet virtue signaling, busybody, liberal politics supply great status in China.

[fiddletown]

Here is one

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/chinese-maternity-tourists-and-the-business-of-being-born-american

This articles says that only the husbands got trips to the shooting range. Well, if they liked it, maybe we can trade them for one our own little tyrants that are constantly shoving more and more draconian gun laws down our throats. I bet virtue signaling, busybody, liberal politics supply great status in China.

Well most of us will never know what the story says since the entire story is only available to subscribers.

[Jimi Jah]

Again, the law is what it is, and I have no idea. Maybe they have a side business selling hunting licenses.

Seems any anti gun lawyer could then sue and shut all those places down? Or the ATF?

How do they remain in business renting machine guns to foreign nationals on tourist visas?

[CCWFacts]

They are in possession. Possession means: [... many legal references]

Clearly, felons can't possess and that means they can't handle a gun or a bullet, and obviously can't go to shooting ranges.

Unless someone can show me that there's a totally different definition of "possession" for tourists, it seems like tourists (lacking a hunting permit or some other very unusual exceptions) are just as much banned from shooting (or even handling guns) as felons are. It may be that there's a practice of non-enforcement of this situation, but if that's what the law says, I won't rely on the indulgence of our judicial system.

I won't take non-resident aliens shooting anymore unless I make sure to get them a hunting permit first.

How can shooting ranges allow tourist groups in? I'm quite sure that shooting ranges have insurance which must enforce some policies on them, including complying with federal law? Confused... unless there's some aspect of the law I'm not understanding.

[Eastbayguy]

Clearly, felons can't possess and that means they can't handle a gun or a bullet, and obviously can't go to shooting ranges.

Unless someone can show me that there's a totally different definition of "possession" for tourists, it seems like tourists (lacking a hunting permit or some other very unusual exceptions) are just as much banned from shooting (or even handling guns) as felons are. It may be that there's a practice of non-enforcement of this situation, but if that's what the law says, I won't rely on the indulgence of our judicial system.

I won't take non-resident aliens shooting anymore unless I make sure to get them a hunting permit first.

How can shooting ranges allow tourist groups in? I'm quite sure that shooting ranges have insurance which must enforce some policies on them, including complying with federal law? Confused... unless there's some aspect of the law I'm not understanding.

Just out of curiosity, if range in CA accepts Florida's "Nonresident 10-Day Hunting $46.50"
or one day California non-resident license?

[fiddletown]

....Unless someone can show me that there's a totally different definition of "possession" for tourists, it seems like tourists (lacking a hunting permit or some other very unusual exceptions) are just as much banned from shooting (or even handling guns) as felons are....

In fact foreign visitors on nonimmigrant visas are included in the same list (18 USC 922(g)) of prohibited persons as felons, unlawful users of controlled substances (e. g., any user of marijuana), and persons convicted of crimes of domestic violence.

....How can shooting ranges allow tourist groups in? I'm quite sure that shooting ranges have insurance which must enforce some policies on them, including complying with federal law? Confused... unless there's some aspect of the law I'm not understanding.

Assuming this is still going on to any great extent (and while I remember it being common here in the Bay Area it pretty much stopped when the law was amended to what it is today), federal prosecutors have apparently chosen not to vigorously pursue prosecution. There's a principle in the law called "prosecutorial discretion", and a prosecutor can pretty much decide not to use his limited resources to prosecute certain offenses or certain offenses under certain conditions. And of course it's all a matter of his discretion, so he can change his mind at any time.

[Jimi Jah]

So what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas?

[nedro]

It's a question of definition. If you let someone shoot your gun while you are standing next to them, are they in possession or are you?

I take a lot of foreign co-workers shooting when they come over for work projects.

Uh, they are.
You'd need a pretty shifty lawyer to argue otherwise.
The 12 judging you understand this.