CGF Blog: Battered Gun Owner Syndrome and the Fight for the Right to Keep and Bear...

[bwiese]

Yep.... and while I note that CTD did try to help in one legal matter, continued appeals to them by informed people fall on deaf ears.

By contrast, the nice people at J&G Sales (Arizona) reach out to us to see what new products/sales methods they can use to legally get more nice stuff into CA.

[ccmc]

With the exception of Kansas, all of the civil rights/segregation constitutional minimums were set in the South.

-Gene

Well that's going back a ways. Not accurate/relevant today. I find more de facto racial segregation in my wife's home county of Marin in California than virtually anywhere in the south. But in any event California's minimums on RKBA are not showing signs of spreading to other states with the exception of like minded states like MD, NJ, NY, etc. Remember Iowa with it's similar to California may issue system and Wisconsin with it's no issue system went shall issue, and more importantly to me personally both now recognize my FL CWFL (well WI after Nov 1). Have any states gone from shall issue to may or no issue in the last 25 years? And other than Vermont in 1903 how many states have gone shall issue as a result of litigation as opposed to legislation?

[wash]

I bought a nice optical rangefinder from CTD.

I drooled over it when they first got them and the price was something like $500. Then the price went down and down and down and I bought mine when it hit $150 I think. They sold out soon after but I'm happy about the $350 of my money that they didn't get.

I haven't felt a need to buy from CTD since.

But getting back on topic, even if I moved out of California, I would still support CGF because they are the front line.

[Wherryj]

A new post today on the CGF Blog:

"Recently I got into a discussion with someone who had moved away from California. He asserted that all the litigation didn't matter and that we as civil rights supporters were not winning and, as usual, we Californians should just leave. I asked him an important question and it should be telling that he didn't answer that question publicly. I asked him how populous his supposed free state was. He privately replied that his new state's population was 3,800,000 (Oregon) and continued to accuse California gun rights supporters of being Baghdad Bob for saying that we're winning. There is no more serious case of Battered Gun Owner Syndrome or lack of understanding of what is actually going on in the US. Because I think this attitude may be a bit too common, I'm compelled to comment on it."

More here.

-Gene

Does this mean that we who suffer from "battered gun owner syndrome" (BGOS) can get protection under the ADA?

[Connor P Price]

Well that's going back a ways. Not accurate/relevant today. I find more de facto racial segregation in my wife's home county of Marin in California than virtually anywhere in the south. But in any event California's minimums on RKBA are not showing signs of spreading to other states with the exception of like minded states like MD, NJ, NY, etc. Remember Iowa with it's similar to California may issue system and Wisconsin with it's no issue system went shall issue, and more importantly to me personally both now recognize my FL CWFL (well WI after Nov 1). Have any states gone from shall issue to may or no issue in the last 25 years? And other than Vermont in 1903 how many states have gone shall issue as a result of litigation as opposed to legislation?

You seem to misunderstand "minimums." There will always be states that are better off for rkba than others. When establishing the constitutional minimum, a guideline will be set for what infringements are allowed under the constitution as reasonable regulations. Those minimums will be set in the places where there are UNreasonable regulations that are found to be unconstitutional.

Heller and Mcdonald started the process by defining the minimum in one area, firearms in common use can not be banned in the home. More minimums will be set in other restrictive states and localities regarding carry, semi auto bans, magazine restrictions, etc. Other states will have rights above the minimum, but no states can have rights below the minimums once they are set.

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[wash]

Maybe we could get a prescription for a "comfort gun"?

[Caladain]

Maybe we could get a prescription for a "comfort gun"?

What's the legality of betting someone on the outcome of our battles with the prize being a firearm?

I've been thinking i could get a lot of these BGOS sufferers today to put their money where their mouth is...and end up with a nice collection of Sigs and Glocks a year or two from now..

[Wherryj]

"So the other [insert ethnic group] shot him."

I've brought it up before. There seems to be little interest. If anything, I'll be pilloried by fanboys for [insert name of retailer]. My take is, we have the power of the purse, and 13 percent of the country's population. If enough Calgunners refuse to buy ANYthing (including items they have no trouble shipping) from retailers who unfairly discriminate against us, we'll get some attention (and, conversely, support those who support us).

Following CA law, no matter how reprehensible the law, is one thing; refusing to ship where others do ship, out of ignorance or laziness or sending a "message," is something else.

Blacklist -- I'll start off with Sportsman's Guide. As schlocky an operation as you could ever hope to find.

You must have "Swiss Flu" -- me too. I was going to buy some GP11 from this outfit

http://www.fivesevenammo.com/shop/page4.html

but he won't ship to Orange County. There is absolutely no restriction on ammo shipment to OC. He also won't ship ammo to "Loyo County." I'm still looking for "Loyo County." (When these people copy boilerplate, they sometimes mistype).

Samco Global Arms (Stand back! Fanboy stampede!)

https://www.samcoglobal.com/FAQ.html

(at least they can spell "Yolo")

Others? How about a formal list, as a sticky? It should have not only the name of the retailer, but WHAT he/she won't ship, to WHERE, with links and documentation (don't want to let it turn into a screw-your-competition page where retailers blackball each other). A table or spreadsheet format would be best.

Conversely, a list of recommended dealers.
I will say...
Midway
Graf's
Seven Springs Armory (first refused to ship to Ventura, then informed himself -- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=fivesevenammo )
JoeBob Outfitters (good black rifle stuff, and offers a Calguns discount)

I'll definitely second Sportsman's Guide. The two times I've ever attempted to order from them I've encountered bait and switch tactics.

On the plus side, I've never had issues with either Midway or Cabela's.

[Don29palms]

The biggest problem wth Kalifornia is not just 2A rights. It's all our rights. They all have been trampled on. When my kids apply for college assistance and are told they don't qualify but a crminal immigrant can get a full ride? Wrong! When 32% of the people in this country that are on welfare are here in Kalifornia that's also wrong. When the Kalifornia legislature keeps passing laws and regulations that run companies out of this state that's wrong. The mentality of tax the hell ut of everyone so they can spend more than they get on unnecessary programs is wrong. The insanity has to stop. Passing over 500 new laws every year is wrong. We need less government not more. What next? A law that makes it illegal to come out of your home? Taxing people for breathing?

Again,I do appreciate the work being done by GCF and associates. The factis that all that work really should be unnecessary. If the politicians would just do there job instead of trying to turn this state into the next socialist country we would be much better off. Welcome to the USSK!

[Wherryj]

Maybe we could get a prescription for a "comfort gun"?

I suppose that my office could gear up for the "Medical Comfort Gun Card", and without too much arm twisting.

[Connor P Price]

I suppose that my office could gear up for the "Medical Comfort Gun Card", and without too much arm twisting.

Dr, my back hurts!

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[Librarian]

I enjoy not shopping at CTD. When we're done fixing things, I'm going to continue to remember their intransigence and remind others of that too.

-Gene

With a little persistence, you can get them to stop sending almost all catalogs to you.

A couple years ago I wrote and told them to stop sending them, and told them why. Took a few months, but now I get maybe two per year rather than one per week.

[IPSICK]

Thought I'd post this here.

I'm getting a big headache from all the calgunners failing to see the big picture of what just happened. Sometimes you 'lose' smaller battles to win the war.

Jerry Brown did the best (intentionally/unintentionally?) he could politically accomplish for gun owners.

He vetoed SB 427 which was extremely dangerous to us, while curtailing further efforts on the topic in his veto message. Might it come up again? Yes, but only if the ongoing litigation ends in complete failure which so far is not happening.

He signs both AB144 and SB610 which is negative (or so it seems) on one end but extremely positive on the other. UOC was a PR nightmare for gun owners and LEO whether you want to admit it or not. Many non-gun owning friends of mine who are either supportive or neutral on gun rights hated UOC. SB610 smooths out a few of the obstacles to LTC.

SB819 again 'seems' bad, but if the right people are able to argue that DROS is now an underground tax this may yet become a victory.

AB809 is a bitter pill to swallow but if truly a DC appellate court has deemed registration unconstitutional there again is hope.


For those expecting Jerry to just come out and veto all the 'hated' bills, you're failing to realize how the political machine unfortunately works. He had to give some (or at least look like it) to hopefully get some later on.


Lastly, if you agree that RKBA is a civil right then you must understand that many victories in the Civil Rights Movement occurred first in court before they found a legislative solution. Also many of the things won by the CRM were 'illegal' until shown to be unjust in the courts.

[oaklander]

As with just about everything, Gene nailed it here.

Please let me explain - it's esoteric. . .

We are #winning so often and so fast that people can't even keep up. It is like technology, it's almost like the concept of "Future Shock."

There ARE losses - but that is because we are #winning. The more we win - the more we lose. BUT - the losses are WAY LESS than the #winning.

Just tally up what we HAVE GAINED so far. We are TOTALLY WINNING NOW - and we must keep up the pressure (both legally, and via grassroots).

Gun rights ARE NOW VIEWED AS PURE CIVIL RIGHTS! That alone means that we will continue to WIN.

For fun - click here - if you think I am wrong:

http://bit.ly/nbAPYb

I know it is not scientific - BUT the tenor has changed. #winning stories now outnumber losing stories by AT LEAST 20 to ONE!

[ccmc]

You seem to misunderstand "minimums." There will always be states that are better off for rkba than others. When establishing the constitutional minimum, a guideline will be set for what infringements are allowed under the constitution as reasonable regulations. Those minimums will be set in the places where there are UNreasonable regulations that are found to be unconstitutional.

Heller and Mcdonald started the process by defining the minimum in one area, firearms in common use can not be banned in the home. More minimums will be set in other restrictive states and localities regarding carry, semi auto bans, magazine restrictions, etc. Other states will have rights above the minimum, but no states can have rights below the minimums once they are set.

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Yeah, I think I did misunderstand what you meant. I thought you were saying that California gun laws would spread to most other states, and I don't believe there's any evidence of that. But if you mean that SCOTUS will find gun laws in states like CA or NY constitutional, then I do agree that CA or NY will define the constitutional minimum. I don't see that as a problem for shall issue states.