Long Beach PD rescues UOCer from Park Police on Independence Day!!

[Roccobro]

What is this post referring to?

Sarcasm taken the wrong way, but later clarified. Then apologies.

Justin

[hill billy]

It's nice to see from this thread that the anti's have gone form just reading to logging in and posting.

OP, glad it all worked out for you.

[rod]

I'm not clear if you are the person in the article, Liberty1, so please read my comments as directed towards the UOCer.

If the park really was an unsafe area then that would change things. But to support that argument the park would have to be largely empty. A dangerous park, packed with families enjoying the holidays, doesn't pass the smell test.

What makes an empty park more dangerous than a park full of people? Are you willing to bet that every person in a park packed full of families will pass a criminal history check and not be a convicted child molester? That's just one worry I have in crowded places. What's the difference between criminal who looks like a criminal and a criminal that looks like a normal person? There aint a difference, and you won't know a stranger is a criminal until they commit a crime. Is there a guarantee that no drugs or alcohol are being consumed, and if there is, can someone guarantee that those consumers of drugs and alcohol will keep to themselves and not cause harm to you and your family? Obviously, my opinion differs a lot from yours, and I'm not knocking your opinion. I'd like to hear more about what makes you think this way. I believe every law abiding citizen should have the option to carry a gun, in any configuration, whenever and wherever they want. Absolutly no restrictions. When that becomes normal in California, as it is in a lot of other states, LEO's will have a different attitude about people and guns. Here's a little story that happened to me some time ago. I was LOCing in a public place full of tourists, shoppers, and people out for dinner. Someone called the cops about me carrying a gun and the cops reply was "so what if he has a gun, I have one too. Have a nice day".

[Arondos]

The whole debate over UOC makes me laugh. If it is legal I will support it.

As to arguing about it a a deterrent. OK maybe one person in the park isn't a deterrent, now let's say half the people in the park were UOC because firearms hadn't been demonized. Think that would deter bad guys? They might get the jump on one person but say 15-20?

If we could get more response along the lines above of so what if he has a gun I do to from LEO's and let citizen's be a deterrent since the police can't be everywhere at once we might actually stop crime before it happens instead of writing a report after.

Or to quote one of the classic's I love.

"Police Protection" is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves. Police do not protect you from crime; they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess. Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an *** whoopin'.
... author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

[dieselpower]

I really wish you guys would knock off UOC, we have enough negative attention on gun owners from the ignorant public. Yes, it is your right, but at what expense? The new anti gun legislation slithering about is getting support by UOC in public, IMHO.

Please give me one example, in the history of the world, where a government's collective mind was changed without conflict?

The best way to fight racism WAS NOT to sit quietly in the back of the bus as MANY lawyers told people to do.

Never in the history of our country, has doing nothing changed the system. In fact doing nothing but filing legal papers has the least amount of effect. California will NOT change unless ordered to by the Federal Government.

We are a State filled with cotton fields and Slave owners, Our State government is controled by the Plantation owners and is not going to free the slaves no matter how many papers you file with THEM. We need to get the Federal Government involved, and the way to do that is by everyone OCing and everyone getting handcuffed for 30minutes.

[Liberty1]

...is by everyone OCing and everyone getting handcuffed for 30minutes.

Perhaps yes but not yet please a few more legal ducks need to be lined up

[creekside]

You strike me as someone who's out to get attention, plain and simple. This area isn't exactly the LBC 'hood (I have friends that live nearby and I've been there more than a few times). If you really felt unsafe there, why did you spend all day playing ball with the kids there?

There is no "place" that is inherently dangerous or safe -- lots of thugs have been charged out with crimes committed within courthouses and police stations. Rapes and murders take place in the 'good' parts of town, if typically behind closed doors, just as they do on the street in the 'bad' parts of town.

The "crime triangle" theory of crime prevention suggests that three elements are necessary for a crime to take place: a suitable victim, a motivated offender and the absence of guardianship. Anyplace that victims abound (think college campuses!) is hunting grounds for the predator.

Public parks are big. It only takes one thug to ruin your whole day, and just because there are 'people around' does not mean that they won't just stand there and watch you bleed out.

It is much harder to victimize an armed person. Not impossible, merely more difficult. The perception that "most" people are unarmed merely emboldens the criminal element.

You leave people with two impressions in situations like this:

1. On duty LEO
2. Nutjob

#3 here. You would not believe the flak armed guards have to deal with in public. Either people mistake us for police, and we have all the bad mojo that goes with that while explaining that we're not -- or little old ladies walk up to us and tell us how to do our jobs.

I remember the look on one lady's face when I said, "Ma'am, you say you're scared because I'm carrying a firearm. But you feel perfectly safe getting up in my face and telling me so. How's that work?"

-1 for common sense. Just because you can legally do something doesn't mean you should.

He can't LOC or CCW. What should he do to protect his family, since you disapprove so strongly of UOC? Carry a baseball bat in the back of his car with a ball and two pairs of gloves? Or perhaps two balls?

Hiding in his home because he's afraid of the criminals isn't liberty or freedom either. I'm glad the man spent the Fourth with his family and standing up for his rights. I presume that he gave up drinking beer because he was UOC; another sacrifice for liberty.

[winnre]

You are correct. Checking the serial number would be a 4th/5th amendment violation. Obviously unless they reasonably suspect you were doing something illegal.

Put some black tape over the numbers if you do not want them looking.

[creekside]

How about, "Give me some realistic situations for any public place where a sidearm is going to save you and where you don't end up killing bystanders."

An argument that somebody shouldn't carry a sidearm for self-defense at an Independence Day picnic in a park isn't significantly different from an argument that somebody shouldn't carry a sidearm for self-defense in any other public place.

Here's ten.

1. Active shooter walking through the park. (This one is taken from an oral interview a friend of mine had for a park ranger job.)
2. Gang of thugs likes your picnic spot, wants you to move, you don't leave fast enough for them, one of them goes hands-on with your wife or child, another one pulls a knife.
3. Mistaken identity: you resemble some off-duty cop, criminal low-life, or other target of some crook's wrath. (Happens all the time, "oops" does not begin to cover it.)
4. Armed robbery for your wallet, jewelry, any small valuables.
5. Woman fleeing domestic violence runs to you for safety. (Happened to one of my armed guys in public. He spent ten minutes tap-dancing with the suspect until PD showed up in force. Turned out he had a pile of felonies and a concealed knife.)
6. Rapist / molester in the bathroom. (You would not believe the sex crimes that can take place in the public park . . . I would not let a child go alone into a public park restroom.)
7. Person suffers medical emergency, is unconscious, needs airway management and/or CPR. As you or your wife gives him help (did you remember your pocket mask and gloves?) someone else, possibly drunken, attempts to interfere. (Happened to me, at a public park, fortunately I had a radio and called for Code 3 cover. Still not pleasant, deciding to clear the guy's airway and keep it open while his drunken buddy threatened to kick my *** for doing so -- and was not grateful for being taken to the drunk tank instead of to the jail.)
8. An innocent gesture or wave is mistaken for a gang sign and you and your family are shortly thereafter confronted by thugs in force with golf clubs and baseball bats . . . but there is not a ball in sight except those in your sack . . .
9. . . . or the innocent gesture or wave triggers a burst of gunfire, you are on the receiving end of a drive-by, followed by a "walk up and make sure."
10. Officer shot / officer down, needs assistance. Assailant is still active. You can't figure out their high-retention holster, assuming s/he is so gravely wounded that they don't fight you for it. "When seconds count, cover is minutes away." (Ukiah, CA WalMart shootout.)

A firearm is a last ditch piece of emergency equipment to save your life." -- Massad Ayoob.

I personally don't carry 50' of garden hose and a stream nozzle to every BBQ. But I'm not going to tell other people what they feel they should carry to protect their life. I do wear my seat belt.

[Roccobro]

Are they allowed to run the serial number. I thought they can only check to see if it's unloaded. If I'm wrong pleas correct me.

You are correct. Checking the serial number would be a 4th/5th amendment violation. Obviously unless they reasonably suspect you were doing something illegal.

In this instance, the LBPD running his serial numbers are inconsequential to the unlawful detention and were apparently done to eliminate any possibility that the detention-by-Ranger was legal.

At least that is what it looks like to me from the order of events...

Justin

[PsychGuy274]

Anyone here who can actually see the word "concealed" in the Second Amendment has my congratulations for their imagination; it ain't there. And since it's your right, concealed or open or purple or bolted to the side of your hide, I'm not going to be one of those who tell you not to exercise your right.

Suit yourself; you have the right.

Geez, you're so naive! It's in the super-secret part of the Second Amendment that you can only see in special lighting conditions with Benjamin Franklin's super-secret glasses! Don't you watch the movies?!

[Glock22Fan]

Put some black tape over the numbers if you do not want them looking.

IIRC, obscuring the numbers is illegal.

[Glock22Fan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugei
Anyone here who can actually see the word "concealed" in the Second Amendment has my congratulations for their imagination; it ain't there. And since it's your right, concealed or open or purple or bolted to the side of your hide, I'm not going to be one of those who tell you not to exercise your right.

Suit yourself; you have the right.

Geez, you're so naive! It's in the super-secret part of the Second Amendment that you can only see in special lighting conditions with Benjamin Franklin's super-secret glasses! Don't you watch the movies?!
__________________

And I looked pretty hard, but I didn't see the work "Open" either.

Back then, it was not considered an issue, open when the weather was right, covered by a coat or cloak in winter.

[CSACANNONEER]

IIRC, obscuring the numbers is illegal.

NOPE. Altering or obliterating them is. Covering them is not. I have Houge grips which cover the SNs on several handguns I own. It is perfectly legal to cover SNs.

[winnre]

Yea otherwise full holsters would be illegal.