MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[phdo]

I just finished reading all 44 pages of this thread and the 19 pages of the file and print. What a cluster ****. CADOJ is force feeding us a mouthful of horse **** and they want us to smile and swallow.

[Fox Mulder]

Just a head's up that I feel like I am repeating myself and am losing interest in explaining the same thing in dozens of different ways but: you need to bring yourself within the terms of PC 30680 to avoid PC 30605, which prohibits possession of AWs. If you have what is defined as an assault weapon with no BB you cannot say that you lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017. PC 30680(b). If you register an assault weapon that was lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, you cannot argue that the registration constitutes/amounts to/is the functional equivalent of registration of a firearm that was required to be registered under prior assault weapon registration laws in effect before January 1, 2017, because DoJ will not register those. PC 30680(c), 11 CCR 5472(b). Yes, you can wave around the registration paperwork and say "haha I have a registered assault weapon" but you are not within PC 30680 because the assault weapon you have was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, and you have not registered the assault weapon you now possess.

So your whole argument hinges on the idea that changing out the bullet button for a regular mag release creates an entirely different firearm, regardless of serial number, manufacturer, or other identifying characteristics, and regardless of the fact that those identifying characteristics have been used to register the firearm with the CADOJ as an assault weapon, yes?

You would learn more if did your own research.

And people wouldn't think you were such a dick, if you didn't act like such a dick. FWIW I was just reading the requirements for a regulation to be considered an underground regulation from the OAL, and had gotten into what must be adopted pursuant to the APA, so I am doing research. Dick.

Edited to add, ok fine, maybe you're not being a dick. In some circles asking people who know more than you do about a subject is considered research...

[2Aallday]

It does become a different assault weapon, one that was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017. This concept is built into the statute.

Thank you. This is what I was getting at with my previous post.

I think DOJ is exposed here as a result. They couldn't regulate the thing they wanted to regulate, so they created a thing they could and then made all the old things they didn't like in to the new thing. Would you agree?

[Quickdraw559]

Like I said yesterday, there's a reason it says "Bullet button assault weapon."

You will register with a bullet button. You will leave the bullet button on. If you remove the bullet button, you will have rescinded your agreement on it's configuration, and you will have manufactured an unregistered, illegal assault weapon by changing it's configuration.

You need to read it with no bias if you want to know what it means.

[Sousuke]

It does become a different assault weapon, one that was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017. This concept is built into the statute.

But it was possessed....

Changing the mag release after registration does not change this, nor has such a change been codified. Otherwise they would have just inserted it into 5477.

[2Aallday]

Edited to add, ok fine, maybe you're not being a dick. In some circles asking people who know more than you do about a subject is considered research...

He isn't a dick. He just explains all the ways we'll lose if we bring poorly considered arguments in to a courtroom. It sucks to hear because it's frustrating, but it would suck even more to lose where it counts.

[Bolt_Action]

Yes, you can wave around the registration paperwork and say "haha I have a registered assault weapon" but you are not within PC 30680 because the assault weapon you have was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, and you have not registered the assault weapon you now possess.

Yes it *was* lawfully possessed *prior* to 1/1/2017. And if it's registered post 1/1/2017 it's lawfully possessed then too, regardless of what type of magazine release it has. WHY can it be possessed in a configuration after 2017 that would have been illegal before 2017? Because the law changed in 2017. Simple enough for you?

[Sousuke]

Like I said yesterday, there's a reason it says "Bullet button assault weapon."

You will register with a bullet button. You will leave the bullet button on. If you remove the bullet button, you will have rescinded your agreement on it's configuration, and you will have manufactured an unregistered, illegal assault weapon by changing it's configuration.

You need to read it with no bias if you want to know what it means.

They needed to codify this and they didn't. Why? Because they couldn't.

[Sousuke]

The main thing I am getting from this thread are that people are claiming things that aren't actually in the regulations.

[2Aallday]

Yes it *was* lawfully possessed *prior* to 1/1/2017. And if it's registered post 1/1/2017 it's lawfully possessed then to, regardless of what type of magazine release it has. WHY can it be possessed in a configuration after 2017 that would have been illegal before 2017? Because the law changed in 2017. Simple enough for you?

No. If it has a standard mag release, it by definition could not have been lawfully possessed. DOJ is basically saying: you may register the precise thing you had, and after registration, the mag release may not be changed. They do not give guidance on what if anything else may not change; they just say then mag release can't be changed.

DOJ does not give a flying eff that the lower is the firearm. They do not care that ARs are like Lego blocks.

I don't like it, but this is what they're saying.

[spartanlee]

So if i took all my BBs off tomorrow. I will have in effect an assault weapon just as much as having a BB.

So how do i register this weapon. Can they really force me to put an item not intended to be part of a fully functioning gun. Can they really force me to paint my gun blazed orange?

[Malthusian]

No disagreement but given that I currently possess several BB ARs it seems that each combination of an upper and lower would constitute a separate "uniquely identified firearm" that I could and must register to not violate the law, as long as I possessed that combination this year. Your thoughts.

My interpretation is that they want clarification that each rifle is fully assembled and they are trying to get as much information as possible

Some individuals will have the same uppers, as they were bought on sale

Once you register, you could change the finish, upper, flash hider etc

[Quickdraw559]

They needed to codify this and they didn't. Why? Because they couldn't.

It will be registered as a BB AW. If it doesn't have a BB, it is no longer.

[Bolt_Action]

No. If it has a standard mag release, it by definition could not have been lawfully possessed. DOJ is basically saying: you may register the precise thing you had, and after registration, the mag release may not be changed. They do not give guidance on what if anything else may not change; they just say then mag release can't be changed.

DOJ does not give a flying eff that the lower is the firearm. They do not care that ARs are like Lego blocks.

I don't like it, but this is what they're saying.

It doesn't have the standard mag released until *after* the law changed the definition tomorrow. It WAS lawfully possessed PRIOR to 1/1/2017. We're having some tense trouble here.

[dieselpower]

am i missing something here or is there a clear way to not register and/or have any kind of mag release you want by simply removing the upper from the lower?

yes because the new regs specifically say that is a NON-AW.