SRM 1216

[Tincon]

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Seems like a problem. I've seen these for sale here, they even have a "CA Legal" version that fixes the detachable magazine problem.

[nutcase]

Conventional wisdom would say that the magazine is not the cylinder. Rounds are held in the magazine and then drawn out of it and into firing position -- whereas the 28 Gauge Circuit Judge does have a revolving cylinder (rounds are fired from the location where they are held, and that holder revolves around a central axis). But IANAL.

[Tincon]

Conventional wisdom would say that the magazine is not the cylinder. Rounds are held in the magazine and then drawn out of it and into firing position -- whereas the 28 Gauge Circuit Judge does have a revolving cylinder (rounds are fired from the location where they are held, and that holder revolves around a central axis). But IANAL.

The magazine is pretty darned cylindrical. The effect is pretty much he same. Nothing about firing position is in that subsection, and indeed the immediately preceding subsection refers to magazines as well; it bans (as AWs) all semi-auto shotguns with detachable magazines. I would not be comfortable owning this.

Of course I guess someone could ask the CA DOJ for an opinion, I bet we would get something back in about Two Weeks.

[fizux]

In revolver terms, "cylinder" is 5-8 firing chambers that rotate as each chamber is successive aligned with the barrel and used. In this case, there appears to be one chamber, and the magazine rotates (but doesn't serve as the firing chamber(s).

I'm not saying I have any specific knowledge or opinion as to the validity in this case, that is just my SWAG as to how this is different from a street sweeper.

[mofugly13]

So, what you are saying, is that if I were to steal a barrel from a St. Bernard, a barrel that measures 8" in length, and attach it to my otherwise legal Remington 700 (or, any legal rifle or shotgun for that matter), that I would have now created a rifle with a barrel of less than 16", and thus, would be in violation of the law??

[Tincon]

I'm not saying this is the correct interpretation, but I think there is some exposure.

There is nothing in the caselaw examining examining this. Nothing in the CCR defines "cylinder" as used here either. the closest thing would be:

Which seems to the support the idea that a "cylinder" must contain firing chamber(s).

NY law is similar to CA, but has a slight change:

I think generally the cylinder on a firearm has firing chamber(s). This is probably the correct interpretation. However, I have seen prosecutions where there was much less unfavorable ambiguity.

A shotgun magazine with a firing chamber is more like a shotgun magazine without a firing chamber than a shotgun barrel is like a wooden barrel on a Saint Bernard.

[Quiet]

On the SRM1216, the tubular magazines do not automatically rotate or move after the trigger is pulled.

After the rounds in the first tubular magazine are expended, the user must rotate by hand the next tubular magazine into feed position.

So, the quad tubular magazine does not operate like a cylinder.

[Quiet]

I've seen these for sale here, they even have a "CA Legal" version that fixes the detachable magazine problem.

[Tincon]

On the SRM1216, the tubular magazines do not automatically rotate or move after the trigger is pulled.

So, the quad tubular magazine does not operate like a cylinder.

Well, that's not necessarily how a cylinder operates either. Keep in mind, this subsection does not (unlike other subsections in the same section) limit its applicability to semi-auto or auto loading shotguns.

For example this shotgun clearly has a rotating cylinder and would be banned, but it is double action only (another example would be the Circuit Judge):



I also think a pump action shotgun otherwise similar to the Striker/Protecta street sweeper would certainly be banned.

The issue is, can a magazine alone be a cylinder, or must it also have a firing chamber. I don't think the law is clear on this point, and a DA/Judge that doesn't know anything about guns might assume any cylinder that holds shells on a shotgun is a cylinder for the purposes of this statute.