Training Method

[elSquid]

Yup. Who can say?

Yup. It's a problem.

If only there was a way for an individual to be placed in a situation where he could display his gunhandling and marksmanship skills under time pressure in a publicly verifiable way...



-- Michael

[ramzar]

If only there was a way for an individual to be placed in a situation where he could display his gunhandling and marksmanship skills under time pressure in a publicly verifiable way...

In a Vehicle Engagement Tactics class as a participant I'd be very concerned about everyone's weapons handling and the shooter's ability to be switched on at all times.

[ZombieTactics]

... If only there was a way for an individual to be placed in a situation where he could display his gunhandling and marksmanship skills under time pressure in a publicly verifiable way ...

I see what you did there, lol. ON the other hand, I used to be neighbors with a NBA player (one of the Kings, back when they were tier 1). I witnessed his attempts to "coach" the neighborhood kids ... not pretty. It's not uncommon for a winning coach to be (or to have been) a so-so player. Albert Einstein was considered "retarded" when he was younger, and was a famously horrible teacher, prone to incoherent mumbling, and fits of violent anger over trivia.

Teaching is a skill set related to, but not exclusive to one's ability to perform. Some of it has to do with the purpose of the student. Are you there to learn something or simply bask in the glow of someone else's awesomeness? I can out-shoot/out-perform some of the people who have been my teachers, but I could not have done so absent their instruction. Let's draw the lines where they belong.

[elSquid]

I see what you did there, lol. ON the other hand, I used to be neighbors with a NBA player (one of the Kings, back when they were tier 1). I witnessed his attempts to "coach" the neighborhood kids ... not pretty. It's not uncommon for a winning coach to be (or to have been) a so-so player.

I think you need to define "so-so". Not all coaches have played in the NBA, but haven't most at least played at the college level? Is making a college team no longer considered an impressive achievement?

-- Michael

[ZombieTactics]

I think you need to define "so-so". Not all coaches have played in the NBA, but haven't most at least played at the college level? Is making a college team no longer considered an impressive achievement? ...

You'd think so. If most have "played", it means that some have not. The argument would be one for nominal proficiency in that case. At the very least it makes the case that an instructor need not perform to the level of those he instructs ... at least not universally. I'd posit that it means you need to have a "workman like" familiarity with the subject matter.

[JRV]

I don't know what happened during the course you attended with Mike. So I'm not going to try and defend him. But I will defend the integrity of CFS, 10X Defense & Mike's integrity as a CFS instructor.

As far as Mike's shooting ability I've had Mike on my line as a student and I was at the course when we he got checked off by Rob to be an active CFS instructor.

As Mike stated the CFS instructor development course has had a 50%+ failure rate on certification. Unlike most ID courses you don't pay money, shoot well & sit in a chair and you're certified. You earn it.

Since people brought up the backgrounds of CFS instructors or lack of. We all pass the same test. A huge percentage of LE, military & SF guys have failed to pass the CFSID course. Example my buddy attended a CFSID course in Wa out of 11 active LEO & one civilian only two people got certified. One of them being a civilian.

Quick question John Hackleman coached Chuck Liddell to the level of being a UFC champion. Has John ever fought in the UFC? Has he ever fought for the UFC belt? Tony Blauer has never fought in the UFC or been a SF guy. Yet he trains SF guys, UFC fighters, civilians and etc.

So the thinking of you NEED to be a teams guy, LEO, super ninja and etc to teach something is seriously flawed. I have met plenty of switched on team guys, LEO, contractors and etc that couldn't teach worth a *****. Just because you can do such and such doesn't mean you can articulate the concepts to someone at an instructor level.

To teach anything you need to understand it at a deeper level to be able to articulate the concepts to a student. You need to be able to read people and see from their face or body language if they are getting it or not. You also need to be able to communicate/teach to a wide variety of personalities.

Like I've said on previous thread anyone who doubts CFS and it's concepts come to one of my courses. At the end of the day we do a course debrief (questions, comments, concerns, likes, dislikes) if you can articulate (in front of EVERYONE) why the course isn't worth the money your course is free. But if you can't you pay for the course and the instructors and students dinner.

Unlike most SD instructors you will never see Rob carry during a course. He doesn't demo every drill. It's not about what he can do or not do, it's about what he can teach. I don't carry ever during a course. I take a students gun to demo the critical incident reload & the shooting in motion drill. I rarely will demo anything else, unless I need to for the sake of a student.

[FireSnake77]

I totally understand everyone's concern based on that bad day experience.

The bottom line is, I sucked. I did horribly. I made poor decisions leading up to the course, and I should have communicated more during the course.

That being said, here is what was going on with me:

The sights weren't installed properly. The test that Max did didn't produce a new hole in the paper that I perceived. The sights can be verified by Parallax Tactical, specifically Joe (the owner) and Tommy (the gunsmith). I took my pistol back to them to assess the alignment. It was shooting to the right.

I was suffering from a case of sissy boy, because I sprained my wrist and elbow in martial arts that week. Every time I shot around of, that sharp pain would sting my wrist and elbow. I ended up limp wristing and slapping the trigger out of sissy boy status.

Everyone was kitted and bringing multiple high cap mags down range. I had 3 ten rounders.

My Kalash was running a PK-AS red dot, with the screw not as tight as it should be. I took it off and went iron sights.

I was in backgrounds with Sheriffs. I previously failed a hearing test with SDPD, so I wanted to protect my hearing. The hearing protection was low tech. ear muffs coupled with foam plugs. I couldn't hear the instruction, so I took off a layer of hearing protection. At one point, the foam plugs weren't secured and rounds started going off, so my tinnitus started ringing louder than peoples voices.

I initially simulated the body's natural reactions to an ambush. I was told to calm the hell down.

ALL OF THIS IS ON ME! Again, I have a lot of respect for what Max has done. If I weren't working Mon-Fri I would've enrolled in the Combat Arts seminar in Sept.

I have since then purchased Howard Leight Impact Sports with sound amplifiers for hearing protection, corrected my pistol sights with Parallax Tactical, and have continuously trained and shot over 10,000 rounds since then.

I chose to find a shooting program that was most relevant to me, and train it to the highest level of skill and understanding.

If it weren't for that bad day, I probably wouldn't have been as upset and driven to get to where I am now....and I'm still learning.

with gratitude,
Mike D.

PS
Our weakness takes us to where we feel strong. Find weakness. Find the flaws. Get better.

[elSquid]

You'd think so. If most have "played", it means that some have not.

I said "most" because I wasn't confident enough to say "all". Are there any current NBA coaches that haven't played at the college level at a minimum?

The argument would be one for nominal proficiency in that case.

So, switching back to firearms, the guy who is a club hotshot or in the top 10-20% in regional competitions would be "nominally proficient"? Would that be a rough analogy to a guy that plays competitive college basketball?

-- Michael

[USM0083]

Hey USM,

First, let me specify that the main point of the video is that you don't HAVE to look at your reload.

Second, No worries. Our training looks like crazy face to most people.

First, let me say the only shooting in motion drill we do is to create space from a contact threat.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=426671690717276&set=a.426671587383953.110503.262414053809708&type=3&theater

The other rare circumstance is suppressive fire. Other than those mentioned, lateral movement comes to a stop at some time before pressing the trigger.

Not only do we get off the "x" during a reload, we also get off the "x" when we recognize a 2nd or more targets.

We are assuming that by shooting our first target, the second target is zeroing in, moving, and doing something other than being inanimate.

The lateral movement also increases some level of precision by extending forward towards the target rather than swinging left to right from one target to the next. Although it is faster to swing left to right from one target to the next, since there is no bio-mechanical lock to control momentum there is a chance of over-swing especially. Lateral movement and forward extension towards the target takes away lateral deviation of the muzzle.

We minimize pre-determined variables to develop the recognition of indicators as they occur unexpectedly.

By loading magazines 30%-40%, there is minimal predictability of when you will reach slide lock. Instead, the partial inertia of slide-lock at a random moment becomes the recognizable stimulus. This reduces cognitive delays when you reach slide lock unexpectedly.

In regards to multiple strings of fire, the number of shots it takes to stop a threat is unknown. So the strings of fire are randomized to prevent the habit of a patterned or per-determined string of fire.

The female at the end did have the habit of squeezing her grip. But her posture is what we teach:

-Lowered center of gravity congruent with what the body naturally does when startled. In her case, she has trained in Choy Lay Fut and is used to dropping into a low horse stance.

-Shoulders in front of the hips with arms at full extension. This creates a bio-mechanical lock in the elbows while reducing degrees of freedom of movement in the shoulders. This kinetic chain increases recoil management. In her case, her wrist tension was the weak link.

-In and parallel with the line of sight. In plausible shooting distances for personal defense, you don't need to look at your sights. Target is sharp, sights are blurry.

Here is an explanation of when to use unsighted and sighted fire:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KujB4aqPT8&feature=g-upl

Hope that helps clear things up a bit,
Mike

Thanks for the response.

There is certainly value in offlines as you draw and engage, and continuing to offline, especially as you reload. Dancing around is just gimmicky, IMO.

Multiple shots until the target is down is necessary. Pepper poppers are great, but once the popper is down, then what? Move to the next target?

The range I use has turning targets, and exercise I do with my officers is to start with one shot per facing in 3 seconds at 5 yards, and when the target faces they offline left and right (this is from the holster). I start increasing the shot count and reducing the time. Somewhere into the second mag, I instruct them to engage the target as long as it's faced. At that point I vary the facing time from 1 to 5 seconds. They may be just getting back into the holster, or in the middle of a reload, when I face the target.

A variation of this drill is where I incorporate a 180 degree pivot. In addition to the target (Transtar II) I have taped 1-3 pictures of a gun, cell phone, caulk gun, coke bottle, police badge, phaser, hair dryer. When they hear the target face, they pivot 180, draw and identify if their target is shoot/no shoot, and engage. What a lot of them did was to shoot if they saw a gun; a moment later you would hear "****" when they noticed their target also had a badge. I would then move some of the pictures around and do it again. Then, I would tell them once they have identified and if needed engaged their target, look at the targets to the left and right, and engage those, if appropriate. They started out with only one or two mags, so between the second and third cycle, I would hand them each another mag, which I had loaded with one or two dummy rounds. This drill accomplishes pivot drills, target ID, multiple shot AND multiple target engagement, reloads AND failure to fire drills.

They really love this drill, and I saw fast AND accurate shooting. Most of my shooter have the necessary mechanical skills; it's when they think or overthink something they fail or perform sub par. This exercise focuses their attention on the target, and their hands and muscle memory takes over the action of drawing, aiming, pulling the trigger and reloading.

Once you have committed to pulling the trigger, the actual act should be strictly from muscle memory. What your brain is doing is determining the level of threat, additional threats, non threats, available cover, etc.

I completely agree that you don't need to use the sights at your typical real life shooting distances. At 7 to 10 yards use may get a flash sight picture, but up to 5 yards, if you are at full extension and have a decent stance and trigger control, you get combat effective hits. How fast you shoot depends on your skill level and what you consider to be combat effective hits. Equipment can speed or slow you down, as can where you are in the OODA loop.

[FireSnake77]

BTW, if everyone is good with the reload video, I gotta take it down. I made some mistakes in my presentation of the material, but I just wanted to show that people can learn to reload efficiently without looking or glancing at the gun.

I'll be taking it down in the next few hours.

Mike D.

Mistakes:
I said left hand instead of weak hand, I started mentioning tactile feedback and proprioception without defining it, etc. If anyone is interested, I'll give them the link to the "official" video once it becomes available. Only difference is more concise communication, and clearer demonstration of what the students are doing.

[ramzar]

Tony Blauer has never fought in the UFC or been a SF guy. Yet he trains SF guys, UFC fighters, civilians and etc.

So the thinking of you NEED to be a teams guy, LEO, super ninja and etc to teach something is seriously flawed. I have met plenty of switched on team guys, LEO, contractors and etc that couldn't teach worth a *****. Just because you can do such and such doesn't think you can articulate the concepts to someone at an instructor level.

To teach anything you need to understand it at a deeper level to be able to articulate the concepts to a student. You need to be able to read people and see from their face or body language if they are getting it or not. You also need to be able to communicate/teach to a wide variety of personalities.

I met Tony Blauer during the Trident Concepts Combative Pistol 2 class in Los Angeles on June 8-10, 2012 (my AAR and instructor's AAR). He's good friends with many in the SF community including the instructor Jeff Gonzales (US Navy SEAL) and Pat McNamara (Delta). His system is proven.

You don't need to be military or LE to instruct firearms proficiently (tactics yes). You don't even need to shoot that well. However, I personally look for instructors with solid backgrounds for both instruction and service. I read AARs and talk to people. I'm not overly impressed with backgrounds as much as I am about their ability to teach. Along with presentation and course material I'm impressed with their ability to explain the why & how of a drill, demo a drill and give proper feedback and diagnostics to the shooter.

[Kempfer]

It doesn't really matter that someone can teach a class with minimal experience. You have more regulations and certifications to open up a nail saloon than a firearms training dojo.

Its a booming business, can't fault people from trying to get on the bandwagon or pursue something they are passionate about. No harm in that, some training might be better than none.

I just hope those entrepreneur's continue to train with other outfits from reputable instructors with serious no joke resume's outside their circle like ITTS, Northern Red, RedBack 1, Vickers, Hackathorn, SouthNarc, TigerSwan and so forth. You'll see where you are and you'll see where you need to go.

[JRV]

I met Tony Blauer during the Trident Concepts Combative Pistol 2 class in Los Angeles on June 8-10, 2012 (my AAR and instructor's AAR). He's good friends with many in the SF community including the instructor Jeff Gonzales (US Navy SEAL) and Pat McNamara (Delta). His system is proven.

You don't need to be military or LE to instruct firearms proficiently (tactics yes). You don't even need to shoot that well. However, I personally look for instructors with solid backgrounds for both instruction and service. I read AARs and talk to people. I'm not overly impressed with backgrounds as much as I am about their ability to teach. Along with presentation and course material I'm impressed with their ability to explain the why & how of a drill, demo a drill and give proper feedback and diagnostics to the shooter.

Tony is a good dude. I took my CFSID course at his old facility in Virginia Beach. I've also been an AI for Rob when Tony finally took his first CFS course. There is a reason Tony & Rob are friends. There is also a reason they have taught S.P.E.A.R & CFS combined courses together. I might add plenty CFS instructors are PDR and or S.P.E.A.R instructors also. Not to mention the owner of 10X Defense Omari Broussard falls into that category and use to travel for & with Tony to teach Tony's stuff. Omari also taught his team CFS & S.P.E.A.R so I'm pretty sure both programs are proven. You can always go to http://www.10xdefense.com for background on Omari.

[ZombieTactics]

I said "most" because I wasn't confident enough to say "all". Are there any current NBA coaches that haven't played at the college level at a minimum?

I've tried to get the answer to this question about a lot of different sports: NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL ... the answers aren't that easy to find. You find a lot of similar arguments to the ones here. There seem to be a number of really stellar coaches with questionable histories as players.

So, switching back to firearms, the guy who is a club hotshot or in the top 10-20% in regional competitions would be "nominally proficient"? Would that be a rough analogy to a guy that plays competitive college basketball?

I don't know, but it's interesting that we are right back to assuming competition as the all-important determiner. What if he (figuratively) won a bunch of "free-throw" or "slam dunk" competitions, but was an overall crappy player otherwise? This might be a bias or a conceit, or it might be all-important. The question fascinates me enough that it remains an open area of inquiry.

[USM0083]

I don't know what happened during the course you attended with Mike. So I'm not going to try and defend him. But I will defend the integrity of CFS, 10X Defense & Mike's integrity as a CFS instructor.

As far as Mike's shooting ability I've had Mike on my line as a student and I was at the course when we he got checked off by Rob to be an active CFS instructor.

As Mike stated the CFS instructor development course has had a 50%+ failure rate on certification. Unlike most ID courses you don't pay money, shoot well & sit in a chair and you're certified. You earn it.

Since people brought up the backgrounds of CFS instructors or lack of. We all pass the same test. A huge percentage of LE, military & SF guys have failed to pass the CFSID course. Example my buddy attended a CFSID course in Wa out of 11 active LEO & one civilian only two people got certified. One of them being a civilian.

Quick question John Hackleman coached Chuck Liddell to the level of being a UFC champion. Has John ever fought in the UFC? Has he ever fought for the UFC belt? Tony Blauer has never fought in the UFC or been a SF guy. Yet he trains SF guys, UFC fighters, civilians and etc.

So the thinking of you NEED to be a teams guy, LEO, super ninja and etc to teach something is seriously flawed. I have met plenty of switched on team guys, LEO, contractors and etc that couldn't teach worth a *****. Just because you can do such and such doesn't mean you can articulate the concepts to someone at an instructor level.

To teach anything you need to understand it at a deeper level to be able to articulate the concepts to a student. You need to be able to read people and see from their face or body language if they are getting it or not. You also need to be able to communicate/teach to a wide variety of personalities.

Like I've said on previous thread anyone who doubts CFS and it's concepts come to one of my courses. At the end of the day we do a course debrief (questions, comments, concerns, likes, dislikes) if you can articulate (in front of EVERYONE) why the course isn't worth the money your course is free. But if you can't you pay for the course and the instructors and students dinner.

Unlike most SD instructors you will never see Rob carry during a course. He doesn't demo every drill. It's not about what he can do or not do, it's about what he can teach. I don't carry ever during a course. I take a students gun to demo the critical incident reload & the shooting in motion drill. I rarely will demo anything else, unless I need to for the sake of a student.

JRV,

Just because someone has military or police experience, or is/was and instructor, does not make them a good shooter. OTOH, you don't have to be a great shooter to be a great instructor.

When I started instructing at my agency 10 years ago, my mentor told me that my hardest students will be those with prior mil or LEO experience. Not because they are good or bad shooters, but because they have lots of "baggage," good and bad, and tend to be...resistant.