Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[Slash2]

first pig

I decided to go with guided hunting outfit for my first hog hunt, first to learn the ropes and second, I don't know anyone with land that I can hunt on.

We were seeing enough pigs that we could be choosy about which one to go after and they were close enough that the guide suggested I try a head shot on the one I decided to take, even though he had been telling me horror stories about failed head shots that left wounded pigs that ran off and died days later with infected swollen heads.

The shot was close though, maybe 15 yards, so I put the cross hairs of the 450B a little high on the pigs ear and pulled one off.

Down!

Just as I lowered the gun off my shoulder the pigs head came up and it started to struggle. The guide starts shouting "shoot it in the head! Shoot it in the head! (f**k, I thought had just shot it in the head!) But before I could draw another bead, it's up and running!

In desperation, and with images of infected swollen heads in my mind, I brought the gun up, started tracking the running pig, and pulled one off just before it ran into the brush.

F**k, F**k, F**k! Pardon the language, but that's what I was shouting as we got up and started running after the pig.

The good news, we found the hog just on the other side of the brush, down and not going anywhere this time. I got lucky with my running shot, right through the liver and lungs.

My head shot had been a tad low, and boy did that 250 gr. factory round mess up that hogs jaw. The lesson was that I pulled a stupid move, I didn't compensate enough for the height of the scope above the barrel at close range. I'm just grateful it didn't get away.

[Wildcatter]

Siringo,

You might just have something there. Better start with low charge weights, not to low, to low has it's pressure problems as well, looking for problems with the pedals, but your idea has allot of merit potential. I like it, way too go!!..
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Slash2,

But you got'em, by-crackie!! Ok, everybody, Slash's house on Saturday for the pig roast!!! I'm bring the Bulls-Eye BBQ Sauce!!!

After Professional Hunting for more years than I'd like to admit and have caped out many, many animals that have had bullets ricochet off the skull, at sometime in their lives and one I did myself, I never recommend a head shot. As high on the neck as possible with the spot just under the head, is filled with ka-gillions of nerves, one does not have to hit the spine or jugular to put the lights out. This, of course assumes that, that shot is actually doable..

I liken the head ricochet effect with a pair of glasses. If you get the angel right, even a pair of glasses will deflect a 450 Bushmaster, and the skull is full of strange angels..

But Hey, a kill is a kill and you did good and I'm proud of you, even if the eat'in on that Jaw is now going to be a little ruff.. You slowed him down long enough to get a second kill shot, in a situation where a bolt gun would have never gotten that kill shot in.. Heck shoot'em in the big toe, if it slows them down long enough to get the real shot made..

Safety First,..t

[450BOOMER]

Good deal Slash2, hog hunting is my favorite.

Neck shots on pigs are virtually 100% reliable if you're a good rifleman. I've put several of them down this way between 450 pounds and 90 pounds.

I must admit that I cheat... I used a 30-06. It took me and my buddy half a day to drag the 450 pound pig out of a canyon 1 1/2 miles to the closest 4x4 access point. That shot was about 75 yards and the 450 pound pig jumped 3 feet in the air then fell dead in her tracks.

Before my days are done I hope to get an elk; other than that, hogs are my only hunting interest.

Boomer

[Slash2]

Good deal Slash2, hog hunting is my favorite.

Neck shots on pigs are virtually 100% reliable if you're a good rifleman. I've put several of them down this way between 450 pounds and 90 pounds.

I must admit that I cheat... I used a 30-06. It took me and my buddy half a day to drag the 450 pound pig out of a canyon 1 1/2 miles to the closest 4x4 access point. That shot was about 75 yards and the 450 pound pig jumped 3 feet in the air then fell dead in her tracks.

Before my days are done I hope to get an elk; other than that, hogs are my only hunting interest.

Boomer

This one was nowhere near 450lbs, more like 140lbs, but tasty. The other side of her head is a mess.

[jagermaster]

Slash
Nice kill.

Others reading

I finally got a chronograph so this weekend will be full of experimentation.
I have loaded 21 rounds for saturday, using Barns 275gr, H110, and the lee 45-70 crimp die.

5 rounds 33gr
5 rounds 35gr
5 rounds 37gr

one of each
29gr
31gr
33gr
35gr
37gr
38gr

Have I jumped too many grains between different charges or am I on the $ ?

[Slash2]

Slash
Nice kill.

Others reading

I finally got a chronograph so this weekend will be full of experimentation.
I have loaded 21 rounds for saturday, using Barns 275gr, H110, and the lee 45-70 crimp die.

5 rounds 33gr
5 rounds 35gr
5 rounds 37gr

one of each
29gr
31gr
33gr
35gr
37gr
38gr

Have I jumped too many grains between different charges or am I on the $ ?

Thanks Jagermaster,

I've shot the 275 barnes with 37 grs H110 @2000fps, 37.5 @2017, 38 @2097 and 38.5 @2110. No visible pressure signs. OAL 2.225. This was when I first got my chrony so the fps may not be very accurate.

I've also shot 'em up to 35grs of lilgun @2075, no prob Bob.

[Wildcatter]

Before I get started, How about that Boomer! Slash, what do you think I'd call a couple of dudes that dragged a two ton porker over the mountain, like they did. Now you know the work you did, how 'bout it wouldn't we call them "SIR", do you think that is accurate Slash, I know they scare me enough...

Capt Jager, sounds like you'll be repeating some work that has already been done. Might want to pull some bullets and repack them, starting at 38gr or a little less and work up from there. I can't remember what length barrel you've got but you should hit a wall that has nothing to do with excessive chamber pressure. With the BM Dissipater Gas system, long before you hit the Chamber Pressure Fire-Wall, the action will start to quit functioning, because the gas port pressures and timing are telling the action to open before the case releases from the chamber walls and even then the pressures won't be excessive yet. When you guys start to hit this neighborhood, I've got fixes, like going back to the full length gas system, that are both cheap and easy to do on the kitchen table and the fix I have in mind will let you go from the rifle length back to the original (carbine length) in mere minutes . This wall is why you guys are not in trouble with chamber pressures yet, and why I think you are yet low and your lack of high pressure case signs tell you so. I think that if you reload carefully and follow all the common reloading rules (for you guys that aren't sure what they are, this is not written for you, but hang with us and we'll teach them to you, in the mean time don't do any of this, ask questions and learn, pretty soon you'll be the teachers), you should be in the 2500fps +- area before you are done with that 275'er.

Keep the OAL as close to 2.250 as is possible and don't worry if your crimp is not in the cannelure, it'll crimp into the sides of the bullet with no real ill effects, even with heavy denting of the sides of the bullet, of course in the far south crimp grove is the best, your decision. Good luck Captain..

Safety First..t

[jagermaster]

Today went without a hitch. My new crony worked great and so did my reloads.

16in barrel
Trim Length 1.65
Bullet Barns 275gr Barns
Powder H110
No wind 54deg overcast
Readings 10ft from mussel
All shots taken from 100yds
Loaded length 2.26

29gr 1654fps
31gr 1771fps
33gr error
35gr 1805fps
37gr 1942fps
38gr 2004fps

35gr H110 5 rounds 3.5in group
1870fps
1821fps
1835fps
1854fps
1854fps ?if this was a good reading

37gr h110 5 rounds 3/4in group
1921fps
1957fps
1950fps
1969fps
1957fps

I think sunday I will load some more 37gr to replicate the 3/4in group.
I will also load some 37.5gr, 38gr, 38.5gr, and 39gr.
When I get a cord to download some picks I will.

[Siringo]

Velocities

Good info Jager. I did a little shooting today. I had wanted to see the difference in 400 gr. resized jacketed bullets versus 405 grain resized cast lead bullets. All shooting was done at 100 yards. I used the same load (27.0 grains of Lil'Gun, WSR Primer, Taper crimp). Velocity as posted before for the jacket slug at 1587 fps. The lead slug was 1,609 fps. The jacket slug grouped into 1 1/4 inches and the cast into 1 1/2 inches.

Also, I shot the 275 grain Barnes with 34.5 grains of Lil'Gun and got 2,142 fps (Av)and a group of less than 1 1/2 inches. OAL was 2.20 inches. Taper crimp. This load beats the factor in terms of retained energy out to 200 yards. Trajectory is nearly identical. I recovered all of my Barnes bullets in the frozen berm -- none of them expanded. The Barnes bullet needs hydraulic pressure to open.

Note that all of the velocities are out of a 16 inch barrel.

[Wildcatter]

Siringo/Jager,

Ok guys, what are your honest assessments of the pressure spore so far?

Safety First..t

[Siringo]

Siringo/Jager,

Ok guys, what are your honest assessments of the pressure spore so far?

Safety First..t

I really haven't seen any signs of pressure in what I have been doing. However, we are dealing with components (primers/cases) that are designed for higher pressures than the 450 is designed for -- so it is difficult to assess if you are in the 45K, 50K or higher range. I really would like to know! I am sure the 450 can operate at much higher pressures out of a bolt gun -- but that is not what this cartridge was designed for. We exist in the same situation as the 45-70. Loads for the trapdoor, 1886 and then Ruger No.1's. Even when I hotrodder the 45-70 in the No. 1 I never saw any signs of pressure. So -- if you get your pressure device up and running -- this would be a big help. Also, We need to know the realities of the gun design. What can the Bushmaster bolt really handle. Straight walled cases behave much differently regarding pressure rise than bottle neck cases. At least in my experience. At first I was cautious about increasing charges in the 450 case .2 gr at a time. Velocities barely moved. .5 gr to 1.0 gr is more realistic.

However -- there is one thing I have discovered -- with the SR Primer, the case can burn only so much powder. This is evident in the very large velocity variations of larger charges and erratic ejection of the spent casing. Maybe this was a safety valve that was designed into the case purposefully. I am certain that if we were using LR primers, things would be quite different.

[450BOOMER]

Siringo,

I believe you haven't raised the pressures enough to see the difference smaller amounts of powder will make. Get the pressure higher and all the powder will burn... heavier bullet, stronger crimp, hotter primer or switch to a faster burning powder.

I shot some of my 318 grain loads a couple of weeks ago all the way up to 41 grains of H110. I could have gone higher but the recoil was too much for my scope... it's history. I continued with my Brownell's fold up sights... the rear HK style sight folded itself down every shot. I didn't take any readings or measure groups (Silhouette Range) but 200 meter 80# rams are knocked back 2-3 feet with a center hit and I was moved too. It's time for me to look into one of the hydraulic recoil buffer's if I'm going to continue with the heavy loads; the arthritis in my shoulder has reminded me how much I like heavy loads for a couple of weeks.

I should have been in the artillery,

Boomer

[Siringo]

Buffer

I had an Enidine buffer for the fixed stock. It doesn't really do anything. In fact, mine broke. The bolt shroud would compress the piston before the buffer would start moving rearward. Wished someone would make a good recoil pad with that decelarator compound.

I understand your point on the pressure. Regarding the recoil -- I went thru the same process with the 45-70 -- how much is enough. This is a light rifle and recoil will always be heavy with the heavier bullets. How about reversing course -- I want a light recoiling 100 yard plinking load using a 200 or 230 gr 45 acp bullet. Anyone go there yet?

[450BOOMER]

I'm using one of these Pro Mag slip-on's with my collapseable stock and it helps.


However, I'm thinking of going to an A2 stock and trying one of these from Brownell's:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=8745

I got some Round nose and Hornady HAP bullets to work up some fast movers for the 450b but haven't got around to it yet; It should be fun.

Maybe I'll just stay tuned... there was some of that done earlier and I believe that's Wildcatter's specialty.

Have fun,

Boomer

[Wildcatter]

Hey Guys,..My buddies son just shot what may be the worlds record mountain lion in WY., (green field measurement is 18 so far) yesterday and they just got home this morning. I'm about to get the first pictures by email and you guys will be the first to publicly view them. Question, how do I get those pic off my email onto here?

Safety First..t