Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[Slash2]

crimp mods

I modified the 45-70 die to get a smaller crimp. Popped the crimp collar out, stuck it in the lathe and trimmed the crimp "bump" back 'till it gave me the crimp I wanted.

The un-modified crimper.


The modified crimper.

[Wildcatter]

Like a bad penny.."I'm Back"..

Had a great time and I've a ton to report, but I just got in and need to get squared away...but I will wet your whistle a little in the mean time, until I have more time for my report..

Another "Major" Gun Company is going to make an offering shooting the 450, in a little sweet & petite true Mauser bolt action and a certain somebody at the Big Red H has been reading our posts and has made a "Pointy" 45-70, in 325 grain weight, of course it was made for the 45-70 only, wink, and the fact that we can use it was just an accident, double wink. I mean, after all, the 45-70 has never really had a factory Pointed bullet available for it, of course the designer is a 450 driver and he thinks it will be great for the 450..Oops and the fact that it has a double crimp grove set back down the bearing surface in the south end of the bullet, doesn't mean anything either, unless one were to use it for a side crimp..triple wink.. take a look.. https://www.hornady.com/shop/shop_im...duct/45015.jpg ... BTW, this 325gr .458" was indeed scientifically shot in the gel, after it was resized to .452", just to verify my claims that this can be done with absolutely no ill effects, no Jacket separations and a performance just exactly like it should have performed as if it was coming out of a standard 45-70..of course you guys already knew all this, but isn't it nice to be vindicated by the Majors once in a while?

Safety First..t

[450BOOMER]

Like a bad penny.."I'm Back"..

Had a great time and I've a ton to report, but I just got in and need to get squared away...but I will wet your whistle a little in the mean time, until I have more time for my report..

Another "Major" Gun Company is going to make an offering shooting the 450, in a little sweet & petite true Mauser bolt action and a certain somebody at the Big Red H has been reading our posts and has made a "Pointy" 45-70, in 325 grain weight, of course it was made for the 45-70 only, wink, and the fact that we can use it was just an accident, double wink. I mean, after all, the 45-70 has never really had a factory Pointed bullet available for it, of course the designer is a 450 driver and he thinks it will be great for the 450..Oops and the fact that it has a double crimp grove set back down the bearing surface in the south end of the bullet, doesn't mean anything either, unless one were to use it for a side crimp..triple wink.. take a look.. https://www.hornady.com/shop/shop_im...duct/45015.jpg ... BTW, this 325gr .458" was indeed scientifically shot in the gel, after it was resized to .452", just to verify my claims that this can be done with absolutely no ill effects, no Jacket separations and a performance just exactly like it should have performed as if it was coming out of a standard 45-70..of course you guys already knew all this, but isn't it nice to be vindicated by the Majors once in a while?

Safety First..t

This is exactly where I hoped Hornady would go... the BC of that bullet and the weight should make the 450b the leader of the pack. Of course the same bullet will work well in the 458 SOCOM too.

I'm not much of a jacketed bullet fan but the FTX and STX bullets are on my list of bullets to try this year for their ballistic advantages in the 444 marlin, 45 Colt, and 45-70 as well as the 450b.

The 450b would make a dandy bolt action cartridge; IMO it would really shine in a lever action too.

Boomer

[Slash2]

IMO it would really shine in a lever action too.

Boomer

I agree, the 450 B and a Marlin XLR with a 20" barrel would be a good match.

[Slash2]

Barnes Spit-Fire T MZ Bullets

Has anyone tried or considered this bullet for the 450?

Barnes Spit-Fire T MZ 290 grs with a BC of .241. Better ballistics than the Hornady, just a little lighter and with no cannelures.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=565938

[Siringo]

Has anyone tried or considered this bullet for the 450?

Barnes Spit-Fire T MZ 290 grs with a BC of .241. Better ballistics than the Hornady, just a little lighter and with no cannelures.



http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=565938

See my post #236. These would work great, but are to long. I had pulled the blue tip out in order to get them to fit. Defeats the whole purpose. Also, the copper fouling was really bad.

Regarding the 325 gr -- this looks like a modified 300 grainer HP from Hornady. That also has the double cannelure.

[Slash2]

See my post #236. These would work great, but are to long. I had pulled the blue tip out in order to get them to fit. Defeats the whole purpose. Also, the copper fouling was really bad.

I remember now.

What made it too long, was there not enough room for powder in the case? Were you shooting the 250gr or 290gr?

There's been so much good info posted to this thread that it's getting tough to remember it all. There was someone a while back that offered to compile all the data, did anything become of that?

[Siringo]

I remember now.

What made it too long, was there not enough room for powder in the case? Were you shooting the 250gr or 290gr?

There's been so much good info posted to this thread that it's getting tough to remember it all. There was someone a while back that offered to compile all the data, did anything become of that?

290 gr. In order for the bullets to be seated in the magazine to the proper oal -- the bullet was seated past the orgive (almost deep seated). The taper on the nose is short. Removing the plastic tip brought it out further. With my later tries I just sanded it back leaving a small amount of plastic on the nose. Looked more like a flat point. Also, they mike out at .450.

[Bistem]

New Here

I have read this entire forum from page 1 tonight. I am new here but have had my 450 for only a short month. Ammo is in extreme short supply now that Obama has won but I did manage to find 4 boxes at a local gun show. I reload for my other AR (.223) and will load for this once the dies and power and other components arent on a backorder status on midway.

I have to say that this AR is an absolute blast to shoot. Puts my 223 to shame. Also, due to the enormous gun rush following Obama's win, I couldnt find the upper only so i bought the whole rifle. Will try to post a pic.

Thanks to all of you for doing all of this extensive research on this round. I realize that this work was niether easy or cheap.

[450BOOMER]

I have read this entire forum from page 1 tonight. I am new here but have had my 450 for only a short month. Ammo is in extreme short supply now that Obama has won but I did manage to find 4 boxes at a local gun show. I reload for my other AR (.223) and will load for this once the dies and power and other components arent on a backorder status on midway.

I have to say that this AR is an absolute blast to shoot. Puts my 223 to shame. Also, due to the enormous gun rush following Obama's win, I couldnt find the upper only so i bought the whole rifle. Will try to post a pic.

Thanks to all of you for doing all of this extensive research on this round. I realize that this work was niether easy or cheap.

Welcome Bistem,

I have to agree with you; the 450b is a blast to shoot and a crowd pleaser... I can't get 5 rounds off at the range before several guys want to know what's going on. The 223 is; after all, just a 22, and fun to shoot, but nothing like the 450b.

Boomer

[Wildcatter]

Welcome aboard Bistem,

That's a mighty fine shoot'en iron you've got there. If I'm not mistaken, it's one of the first one hundred made. Bushy offered the first 100 in camo, so if I'm correct you'll have some numismatics going for you even now and way more in the future, lucky duck,..."I ain'ts gots me one of dem-dar high fa-luted smoke poles", (with a Jealous Sniffle).

Safety First..t

[Slash2]

See my post #236. These would work great, but are to long. I had pulled the blue tip out in order to get them to fit. Defeats the whole purpose. Also, the copper fouling was really bad.

A thought on the copper fouling with solid copper bullets. You mentioned that these bullets were only .450 in diameter, is it possible that they are not sealing the bore and allowing the hot gasses to escape around the sides? Wouldn't this vaporize some of the copper and allow it to be deposited in the bore?

If that is what's happening, would a little wadding behind the bullet help? Would the wadding seal up the bore and prevent the gasses from escaping past the bullet?

Someone early on mentioned that they put a little wadding in the case to take up excess space left by low powder charges. It helped with the consistency of the burn. Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone when using solid copper bullets? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Siringo]

A thought on the copper fouling with solid copper bullets. You mentioned that these bullets were only .450 in diameter, is it possible that they are not sealing the bore and allowing the hot gasses to escape around the sides? Wouldn't this vaporize some of the copper and allow it to be deposited in the bore?

If that is what's happening, would a little wadding behind the bullet help? Would the wadding seal up the bore and prevent the gasses from escaping past the bullet?

Someone early on mentioned that they put a little wadding in the case to take up excess space left by low powder charges. It helped with the consistency of the burn. Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone when using solid copper bullets? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

If the bullets were flat base and not boatail and the powder charge completely fill the case maybe that would work. I shot black powder cartridge and utilize a fiber wad over the powder charge. But remember, that this is with black powder completely filling the case. There is not air space.

My conclusion when I shot these that they were not worth the trouble. The 275 grain XTB would be my choice.

[Wildcatter]

Not to much activity here lately, guess it's to cold.. -15 here and two feet of snow. Stopped building on the Range Lab, but tomorrow and the weekend will be good work weather. Randall, cheer us up some, tell us all about the short sleeve shooting weather, birds chirping, your sun burn, etc.. On another note, Bushmaster and I are building two piezo-electric pressure guns. Mine will also sport a sensor at the cartridge head, to test for bolt thrust, as soon as I figure out how to do that, seems nobody's done that or they aren't talking about it. I need to prove to Randall that he is only partially correct and then re-work up some real loads. I will test some of you guys personal loads and at that point we will all be Happy Little Campers.. Randall, if I sponsor you over here for about a week or two, can you get the time off, this spring? I intend to blow the shooting community right out of the water with these loads and the new bullet. We need to shoot 6000rds (the military longevity test) at max pressures and then check for stress cracks. I will need certified witnesses, the more the merrier, you know we'll set up a Whites Lab thing. Any of you guys that live nearby are welcomed too..

Safety First..t

[ar15barrels]

Randall, if I sponsor you over here for about a week or two, can you get the time off, this spring?

Depends on when.
I have a bunch of matches scheduled already.
I generally shoot 3-4 matches a month.
I'm going to try for 7 match days this month.

On your bolt thrust gun, build it like a pressure gun, with a huge breech, but sandwich a pressure sensor in the back of the breech cap.
Use a firing pin drilled at an angle to fire the primer.
That will let you get the force measurment on axis with the case.

It's been cold here too.
It started snowing on us two weekends ago.