Reloading Kaboom Yesterday - Please Learn From This

[91 whiskey 209]

Sub'd

[grant22]

Well I have to fold on this one because I to am puzzled. Its such a simple task that I cant see where even the newest reloader can go wrong on it. Its not like you had a kabbom round fired in a gun where there are several things to consider which could be wrong.

I am ordering the auto filler now. My only concern will be that I use Wolff primers because they are cheap and some of them are out of shape and stick in the tubes. This may be an issue until I switch back to Winchester and I have 10K left to burn up. One way or another I will do what it takes to switch to a safer system.

Highlander will be along soon to post his findings but from what I heard he did find data from the material inside the primers being sensitive to static charges. I guess the person I spoke with at Dillon made the comment with out knowing 100%. Not that I hold them responsible for knowing what a chemist should but perhaps the perfect scenario results in something like this happening. Just the slightest chance is going to motivate me to make some changes. After all I carry a gun daily for that small chance I may actually need it so whats one more precaution in my life.

Thanks for sharing this and not sure how you are typing but good job keeping us up to speed.

Hey Brian, please be cautious with those 'out of round primers.' When I was talking to Dillon, one of the first questions he asked was if any of the primers were out of round. He followed up with asking if I felt any unusual resistance when picking up the primers. My answer was no, but obviously it's a concern if he brought that up first. Just be careful........it may be worth just ditching those.

Think about this: I have a job with sick time, medical,etc etc. Many of us begin reloading to save money, but one ER visit can cancel that out. Luckily in my case, my er visit is all paid for. But to those of you that may not have that type of benefit, ask yourself if this hobby is worth the risk just to save a few bucks. If your reload for all the reasons I like reloading, then I'll say no more.

I guess my point is, if you have 10k wolf primers that may have cost $200, and there's some out of rounders in there, if kaboom happens......will $200 be worth it?

Take care and be safe. I really hope all this isn't bumming any one out, but at least we'll be much more aware, now.

[c good]

Grant22:
Thank you for posting this info up. It will make us all re-evaluate our procedures. Have you talked to a hand surgeon concerning your injuries? ER Docs are decent but hands deserve the best specialists. Hope you heal up fast and 100%! (those injuries were more extensive than I would have thought from a primer tube accident) Lessons learned. c good

[problemchild]

OK I have the answer.

Buy a titanium or steel outer tube or sleeve to go over the soft aluminum tube supplied by dillon. Get one that fits snug and leave 1 inch at top and bottom for working primers and pin.

BAM problem solved.

[grant22]

Grant22:
Thank you for posting this info up. It will make us all re-evaluate our procedures. Have you talked to a hand surgeon concerning your injuries? ER Docs are decent but hands deserve the best specialists. Hope you heal up fast and 100%! (those injuries were more extensive than I would have thought from a primer tube accident) Lessons learned. c good

Thx. I go to the plastic surgeon on Mon.......and I'm not friggin looking forward to it.

(I hate pain)

[grant22]

OK I have the answer.

Buy a titanium or steel outer tube or sleeve to go over the soft aluminum tube supplied by dillon. Get one that fits snug and leave 1 inch at top and bottom for working primers and pin.

BAM problem solved.

For once, I'm a step ahead of you PC, but there needs to be an air space between the 2 tubes......just like in the primer 'magazine.'

Hope you guys forgive me, but I'm gonna wait til this thing heals a bit before I go crazy tinkering a fix.

[Brian1979]

Hey Brian, please be cautious with those 'out of round primers.' When I was talking to Dillon, one of the first questions he asked was if any of the primers were out of round. He followed up with asking if I felt any unusual resistance when picking up the primers. My answer was no, but obviously it's a concern if he brought that up first. Just be careful........it may be worth just ditching those.

Think about this: I have a job with sick time, medical,etc etc. Many of us begin reloading to save money, but one ER visit can cancel that out. Luckily in my case, my er visit is all paid for. But to those of you that may not have that type of benefit, ask yourself if this hobby is worth the risk just to save a few bucks. If your reload for all the reasons I like reloading, then I'll say no more.

I guess my point is, if you have 10k wolf primers that may have cost $200, and there's some out of rounders in there, if kaboom happens......will $200 be worth it?

Take care and be safe. I really hope all this isn't bumming any one out, but at least we'll be much more aware, now.

I bought 30k of these primers and loaded 20k of them with no issues. The reason they asked you this is because when it happens we have to poke the primer to get it out. That practice is where it gets dangerous. So long as you remove all the "free" primers above and below that bad one you are only dealing with 1 bad primer. When people start poking at the stack of 50+ primers and set one off its bad news. The out of shape primer itself is not the issue but instead the practice required to deal with it that gets scary.

I just dont see how anyone can do anything but accept this issue for what it is because its so stupid easy it cant be screwed up. The first thing we talked about was this happening to you because you are a new reloader but filling a primer tube is something some people let their kids do. I hope they read this because some years back when I heard of it I made sure my kid is never near primers.

I really hate to spend $300+ right now but if its going to make me feel safer then I have to. Perhaps the $8k+ i just spent on 2 Wilson Combat 1911's is whats killing me not the $300.

[JHermsen]

From the description of the actions he took and the conditions that day it sure sounds like SE Discharge. You've all seen the flashes in the blankets on cold, low humidity nights in the mountains? It's there, dry skin and synthetic fibers can do it too. It really wouldn't take much for that discharge to flow through the tube, arcing across primers within. Spark, enclosed place, with HE present...recipe for disaster.

Granted, this is most likely one of those perfect storms of circumstance. I'm glad you'll heal, that could have been baaaad.

The other incident that happened similarly...check the location and weather conditions. If the setup to the accident happened the same, you've got your pattern.

I'm still sayin' ED (not erectile disfunction).

Lesson contained: Wear eyes and do not load primers in low RH conditions; do it another day, so you can do it another day.

[Sub95]

later this weekend i will see if a tazer will set off a primer.

If you want to make thicker primer tubes just have a machine shop make you some or if someone here has a lathe they can do it.

[NoJoke]

For once, I'm a step ahead of you PC, but there needs to be an air space between the 2 tubes......just like in the primer 'magazine.'
.

Why?
Couldn't I build an outer tube and JB weld it in?
Why is a space required?

Here's some Ti tube that would work w/ the small hornady p/u tube (High-Strength Weldable Titanium (Grade 9) .319" ID : http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/3681/=esktow

[grant22]

I bought 30k of these primers and loaded 20k of them with no issues. The reason they asked you this is because when it happens we have to poke the primer to get it out. That practice is where it gets dangerous.OOOOOOhhhhhhhhhh, I wasn't aware of that.So long as you remove all the "free" primers above and below that bad one you are only dealing with 1 bad primer. When people start poking at the stack of 50+ primers and set one off its bad news. The out of shape primer itself is not the issue but instead the practice required to deal with it that gets scary.

I just dont see how anyone can do anything but accept this issue for what it is because its so stupid easy it cant be screwed up. I had 4 hours in the er to dwell on this. I could find anything I did wrong, but as stated,found other 'indirect' things I would do differently.The first thing we talked about was this happening to you because you are a new reloader but filling a primer tube is something some people let their kids do. I hope they read this because some years back when I heard of it I made sure my kid is never near primers.

I really hate to spend $300+ right now but if its going to make me feel safer then I have to. Perhaps the $8k+ i just spent on 2 Wilson Combat 1911's is whats killing me not the $300. Would it help if I took those off your hands???

yup

[Droppin Deuces]

Ugh... Glad you aren't worse off after that. Geez.

When I picked up my press, my buddy told me to throw the tube away and use the hand primer because of this exact reason. I didn't throw it away, but I also have never used it because I was a little spooked by what he told me. I just prime my casings while watching tv and do several hundred in 30 minutes.

[problemchild]

For once, I'm a step ahead of you PC, but there needs to be an air space between the 2 tubes......just like in the primer 'magazine.'

Hope you guys forgive me, but I'm gonna wait til this thing heals a bit before I go crazy tinkering a fix.

I think a steel tube with no air space would contain the blast and allow it to blow out both ends.

Hey I have an idea. We put the steel tube on it, Ill rub a blanket fresh out of the dryer all over you and then you can pick up the tube and see if it explodes.

[grant22]

Why?
Couldn't I build an outer tube and JB weld it in?
Why is a space required?

Gary at Dillon stated it's needed to allow the aluminum to expand and fail but the steel will contain the outward expansion.

The vertical expansion will still occur.

Picture what happens when you put an unopened soda in the freezer. As it freezes, it ruptures. If you encased somewhat tightly with a stronger material, that could still rupture. If you encased it in a second material that was loosely fitted, the can would rupture and be contained in the second barrier.

In the case of the primer pick up tube, energy would try to escape the two ends, but the openings are too small for the rate of expansion so the side will start to rupture (like in my pics). If the steel was larger diameter than the OD of the aluminum, the aluminum would fail (which you want) but would then be contained in the steel tube.

If the steel was too tight against the aluminum, it could theoretically rupture, also.

[grant22]

I plan on trying to free float a tube within a tube (probably with the use of JB weld). A simple way to descibe it is a normal p/u tube with a full length steel outer tube with at least an 1/8" gap all the way around.