Rifle brass sizing

[fguffey]

Forgive me for the 5 asterisk word between no and footing.

F. Guffey

[J-cat]

So how do you size a case when the shoulder length is too long to fit the chamber? Send the rifle back?

[FLIGHT762]

So how do you size a case when the shoulder length is too long to fit the chamber? Send the rifle back?

Now we're getting somewhere.

Mr. Guffy, what do YOU call the SQUISHING of the shoulder DATUM down in a die with full body support, to fit a rifle's chamber when it is necessary to do so?

According to you , we all have our heads up our @$$es.

[Ishooter]

So I have a batch of 15 cases that won't size down enough to go into the rifle without resistance. The shell holder is touching the die. What would cause this? I have fired none resized brass that measures 1.626. And this problem brass after resizing measures 1.630. Its only been shot twice and I only used 41 grains of Varget.

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I have similar issues with some .223 cases like that. Even that I use small base sizing die, and resize all the way down, that particular case just won't load in AR. The case is just too thick and larger than normal. However, that case works fine in bolt action.

[fguffey]

Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
So how do you size a case when the shoulder length is too long to fit the chamber? Send the rifle back?

AGAIN: My favorite cases are cases that are too long from the shoulder to the case head to allow the bolt to close; problem. manufacturers of components do not sell cases for reloaders that know what they are doing.

According to you , we all have our heads up our @$$es.

Reloaders are conditions to fire form; fire forming requires little to no skill or knowledge of reloading. It is a matter of chambering a round and then pulling the trigger, after that it is a wa-la thing as in after pulling the trigger the reloaders become a fire former. Not me! I form first and then fire.

Any case that can be formed from a 30/06 case I form from a 30/06 cases. The exception would be forming 30/06 cases for long 30/06 chambers. I form 30/06 cases for long 30/06 chambers from 280 Remington cases. The questions should be: How can I miss? I Have .051" additional cases length from the shoulder to the case head to play with.

I do not know why reloaders insist on starting over everyday. They claim they can 'bump' the shoulder bsack .002"; now that is not one or two, it is everyone of them and they claim it is sooooo easy they have it worked down in a short phrase like, "all that is all you have to do".

"According to you , we all have our heads up our @$$es"

If I had the luxury of an opinion I would say that is something reloaders insist on doing. If a reloader has the skill to 'move' the shoulder back .002" why cant he move it .003" or .004" or .005" or .006", .007", .008", .009" or .010" etc. ? Again, I have a M1917 with a chamber that is .016" longer than a mini8mum length/full length sized case or .011" longer that a go-gage length chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. When forming cases for that chamber I adjust the die off the shell holder .014" when forming 280 Remington cases to 30/06 cases. The difference between the .016" and the .014" is the magic .002" clearance.

To prevent the reloader from starting over everyday it helps if he can verify a head space gage or the length of a case from the shoulder of the case to the case head.

According to you , we all have our heads up our @$$es.

My opinion? I believe the problem with reloaders has to do with their vision; that leads me to believe there is something wrong with their optic nerve.

F. Guffey

[J-cat]

You didn’t answer my question: how do you size a case whose shoulder length exceeds that of the chamber?

[SixPointEight]

You're literally a crazy person, right?

If I had the luxury of an opinion I would say that is something reloaders insist on doing. If a reloader has the skill to 'move' the shoulder back .002" why cant he move it .003" or .004" or .005" or .006", .007", .008", .009" or .010" etc. ?

We can, but we can extend the life of our brass by sizing to less clearance than that. With a comparator and a brain we can measure our cases after firing then adjust our sizing die such that we size the brass to just barely fit in our chamber, instead of sizing all the way back to minimum dimensions such that the brass would fit in any production chamber. By minimizing how much we work the brass, we can maximize case life.

Again, I have a M1917 with a chamber that is .016" longer than a mini8mum length/full length sized case or .011" longer that a go-gage length chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. When forming cases for that chamber I adjust the die off the shell holder .014" when forming 280 Remington cases to 30/06 cases. The difference between the .016" and the .014" is the magic .002" clearance.

To prevent the reloader from starting over everyday it helps if he can verify a head space gage or the length of a case from the shoulder of the case to the case head.

So...you're bumping the shoulder back 0.002". You're being intentionally obtuse and using 73 words where 5 will do. Your shoulder datum WAS at +0.016", you resize it and now the shoulder datum IS at +0.014". The difference is -0.002" as you say. If we start at one distance and move to a distance that is shorter than the one we started at, we often say we moved backwards. So you are literally telling us that you moved, bumped, relocated, set back, pushed, or otherwise relocated the case shoulder datum back 0.002", something you have been saying for ages is impossible to do.

Call it what you will, the game is up, you've contradicted yourself and admitted to us all that you also bump the shoulders back on your brass instead of resizing to minimum dimensions every firing. Throw in as many and as you want.

Every time Ol' man Guff posts I suggest we quote his own contradictory post back to him.

[fguffey]

f we start at one distance and move to a distance that is shorter than the one we started at, we often say we moved backwards. So you are literally telling us that you moved, bumped, relocated, set back, pushed, or otherwise relocated the case shoulder datum back 0.002", something you have been saying for ages is impossible to do.

So you are literally telling us that you moved, bumped, relocated, set back, pushed, or otherwise relocated the case shoulder datum back 0.002",

I find it impossible to move the shoulder back; I have never said I could not shorten the distance from the shoulder of the case to the case head. I have never assumed the shoulder moved back nor have I been able to bump anything with a non bump press. To bump I must have a cam over press and then there is the bump, to bump once the reloader must know what he is doing, all other must bump twice.

I have no ideal what is so difficult to understand about sizing a case. The shoulder I finish with is not the same shoulder I start with.

F. Guffey

[J-cat]

So what do you call what you do to the case? The shoulder that is not the same. A slope? A new shoulder? A brass easement?

[ar15barrels]

The shoulder I finish with is not the same shoulder I start with.

So what do you call what you do to the case?
The shoulder that is not the same.
A slope? A new shoulder? A brass easement?

He makes a new shoulder every time.
The old shoulder vanishes and a new one appears inside the sizing die.

[kriller134]

So what do you call what you do to the case? The shoulder that is not the same. A slope? A new shoulder? A brass easement?

[J-cat]

I disagree. I can bump the shoulder back.

[jwfire25]

So I finally made it back to the bench. And as many suggested, my shell holder was contacting the die before the case was enter into the die. Not after. So I tightened the die down and problem solved. But now I have to research this "shoulder bumping business" lol! [emoji16]

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[smoothy8500]

Good to hear you figured out the issue.

[J-cat]

You did the impossible. Congratulations!