Well I'm getting screwed

[ChuckDizzle]

Our president doesnt look at the constitution now, what makes you think he's going to look at it later?

That's just stupid, so it is merely a politics thing for you. Now I get it you think the president is like "King of America" or something instead of merely the head of the executive branch.

[ChuckDizzle]

Of course. I'm sorry. I forgot that criminals register their firearms, too. Please accept my apologies. Now, since you're a big proponent of registration, make a definitive case for registration.

Every gun used in a crime was at some point bought and sold legally. If you wish to have a database of guns it makes sense to do it at the point of sale. Which is what has been done.

As I stated above, handgun registration has assisted in the prosecution of murderers and with the recovery of stolen property. Those are factual, objective benefits of registration of firearms. I'm sorry in order to overcome those benefits you are going to have to give me some actual objective harm that registration causes without resorting to slippery slope confiscation boogeyman.

[surplus-addict]

MUCH simpler (though not as James Bondish) my way.

I will definitely give you that!
But, if there isn't a way to get a face to face sale of an 80%, at least you have another option.

[jonzer77]

How am I able to buy an SKS off the shelf if they have been banned and confiscated?

I already suggested that you google it since it is a part of CA history. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

[surplus-addict]

Every gun used in a crime was at some point bought and sold legally. .

....you realize there's a HUUUUUGE illegal, homemade gun market, right?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/19/home-built-m11-submachine-guns-seized-australia/

Home built M11 submachine guns seized in Australia

[jonzer77]

Every gun used in a crime was at some point bought and sold legally. If you wish to have a database of guns it makes sense to do it at the point of sale. Which is what has been done.



As I stated above, handgun registration has assisted in the prosecution of murderers and with the recovery of stolen property. Those are factual, objective benefits of registration of firearms. I'm sorry in order to overcome those benefits you are going to have to give me some actual objective harm that registration causes without resorting to slippery slope confiscation boogeyman.

Please get your facts straight so you don't look silly.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

[ChuckDizzle]

Lol, so because some hobbyists with the skills, knowledge, and materials can make home-made guns it means that the guns being currently used in crimes were home made? Look at the DOJ's statistics on gun violence. Home made guns are not being used in crimes. Of course you will likely say those statistics are part of the conspiracy to get your guns.

[ChuckDizzle]

Please get your facts straight so you don't look silly.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

Funny thing is that I never claimed that guns used in crimes were always stolen, I merely pointed out that registration has assisted some gun owners in reclaiming their lost property. I also pointed out that murderers have been convicted with the help of pistol registration because when you have a .357 magnum registered to you and your wife was killed by a .38 caliber bullet, and you can't produce said pistol to a detective because it was "stolen some time back" it looks a little suspicious.

Great link. "Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."

So by having a registration system in place it will be easier to hold straw-purchasers accountable.

[dunndeal]

C.A.R.B. - a WHOLE GROUP of them, not to mention plenty of Environmentalist politicians in Sacramento that would love to take any car older than 10 years and require junking them - ESPECIALLY IN CALIFORNIA due to failure to pass an arbitrary smog law or "safety" test. How ironic.

Well, that backfired on you - pun intended.

What a shill.

In today's mail I received a letter from CARB informing me that they'll give me $1000.00 if I take my 1992 3/4 ton 4X4 Suburban to a wrecking yard and turn it in.

F them. I use the beast to tow my 6000 pound boat a total of 2500 miles a year. What am I going to buy for $1k that will launch and retrieve it?
Oh wait, they'd probably like me to scrap that too.

[jonzer77]

Funny thing is that I never claimed that guns used in crimes were always stolen, I merely pointed out that registration has assisted some gun owners in reclaiming their lost property. I also pointed out that murderers have been convicted with the help of pistol registration because when you have a .357 magnum registered to you and your wife was killed by a .38 caliber bullet, and you can't produce said pistol to a detective because it was "stolen some time back" it looks a little suspicious.



Great link. "Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."



So by having a registration system in place it will be easier to hold straw-purchasers accountable.

You said that all guns that are used in a crime are purchased legally. A straw purchase is not a legal purchase and neither is a crooked FFL selling them to criminals.

You also have failed to address the fact that confiscations have occurred here in CA when you said its impossible.

[vaka]

sold legal

[QUOTE=ChuckDizzle;13132191]Every gun used in a crime was at some point bought and sold legally. If you wish to have a database of guns it makes sense to do it at the point of sale. Which is what has been done.



You are 100 percent correct . Just ask Eric Holder the Head of the DOJ about the fast and furious operation they sold them legally to drug cartels so they could trace them back and recover them and we all know that it went extremely well because if the government sells any thing it has to be legal right? The government is not above the law right ?

[dunndeal]

So by having a registration system in place it will be easier to hold straw-purchasers accountable.

The Federal DOJ prosecutes fewer than 100 straw purchasers a year. Your argument is BS.

[ChuckDizzle]

[QUOTE=vaka;13132288]

Every gun used in a crime was at some point bought and sold legally. If you wish to have a database of guns it makes sense to do it at the point of sale. Which is what has been done.



You are 100 percent correct . Just ask Eric Holder the Head of the DOJ about the fast and furious operation they sold them legally to drug cartels so they could trace them back and recover them and we all know that it went extremely well because if the government sells any thing it has to be legal right? The government is not above the law right ?

I didn't know Eric Holder was the head of the California DOJ. Ohh wait, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

[surplus-addict]

Lol, so because some hobbyists with the skills, knowledge, and materials can make home-made guns it means that the guns being currently used in crimes were home made? Look at the DOJ's statistics on gun violence. Home made guns are not being used in crimes. Of course you will likely say those statistics are part of the conspiracy to get your guns.

Of course most crimes aren't committed with homemade guns, regular firearms are too available.

But then go look at the Philippines.

Guns are highly regulated.

Crime with firearms is HUGE, they have terrorist organizations dukeing it out for pete's sake.

There is a cottage firearm industry there that is unrivaled anywhere else in the world, and they make some REALLY good stuff.

So, restricting legally made firearms?

It won't do anything.

[ChuckDizzle]

The Federal DOJ prosecutes fewer than 100 straw purchasers a year. Your argument is BS.

So because the feds do a poor job at something it isn't worth doing at the state level? How could they prosecute straw purchasers if there is no registry to show that gun found on recidivist felon A was purchased by cousin of recidivist felon A?