Well I'm getting screwed

[Steve_In_29]

IIRC .50BMG rifles are illegal. You can own a .510DTC or a .416 Barrett, but .50BMG is verboten, unless I'm very mistaken.

Edit: of course there is always a semi auto Ma Duce...

No they are legal to own (if you had it prior to the ban) you just can't buy one now.

[blazeaglory]

There you go, asking for your liberalized version of "realistic" again. Are you a shill? Do you work for Democratic Underground? Because a lot of your posts often lean in that "oh, registration is serendipitous" direction.

Yes. And yes. I will follow the law of the 2nd Amendment, not some arbitrary trampling of my rights by a subsequent government with other motives that is breaking the law when I have not committed any immoral actions that require punitive assessment. I WILL circumvent that illegal action, yet; you can count on that rebuttal.

I will do so, until I move out of this pisshole of a state when I retire early, to one of 3 other properties I already own in 2nd Amendment friendly states.



And; apparently you have not been reading the news or paying attention to "precedents" under how states are abusing their position to apply their view of applying laws under the 10th Amendment, in opposition to Obama's failure toward lobbing an Executive Order of registration and bans, and establishing bans and threats of confiscation - I give you New York, Connecticut, and Colorado.

More to come.



The state is not worried about me using my boat or car in opposition to their tyranny. And lest I remind you, there is no 2nd Amendment that provides the "Right to Keep and Bear Boats" or the "Right to Keep and Bear Cars" in opposition to a government that seeks control of the people.

That is WHY we have the 2nd Amendment. Serialized registration is an infringement on that right, because it is a specific utility that will be used for confiscation where otherwise the government would not have had that specific knowledge so readily accessible otherwise.

The registered car and registered boat comparison is SO often a cliche dictum that the Anti-2nd Amendment crowd naively uses in their registration debate, for lack of understanding WHY there is a 2nd Amendment (no, it's not about hunting, it's not about stopping burglars) it further makes me wonder about your motives. You have all of 25 posts that all ring so similar. I think I've got you pegged.

AMEN!! Ill "2nd" that

[Travis590A1]

Why not disclose who the vendor is?

OP, out the vendor/ FFL so no one else has to go through posting a "what legal options do I have?" thread that gets hijacked into a registration debate thread.

out the vendor.

I will out him as soon as I at least get my 4 lowers. Ive already been in contact with DOJ, ATF, Bakersfield PD as well as multiple news outlets in the Bakersfield area. He is in for a fun ride.

Sent from FighterPilot's basement

[JMP]

It enables law enforcement the ability to identify and track firearms that are used illegally or stolen. I have personally seen serial number identification used to tie murder weapons to murderers at trial. I've also seen firearms in evidence returned to their rightful owners, they sure were happy their pistol was registered when they got it back.

Okay buddy, if registration is so friggin good, please humor me. How many long guns have you or will you register voluntarily? If none, then all you comments show that you are full of BS.

[BrassCase]

Let's get this thread back on the right track.

Travis, please let us know who the FFL is so none of us end up in the same situation in the future. I use an FFL in Milpitas and I doubt that he is the offender.

[acorn]

I will out him as soon as I at least get my 4 lowers. Ive already been in contact with DOJ, ATF, Bakersfield PD as well as multiple news outlets in the Bakersfield area. He is in for a fun ride.

Sent from FighterPilot's basement

Ok,

It sucks that this happened to you. But other than poor business ethics, what did he do that was illegal? What did the DOJ, ATF and BFPD say to you? Technically they were not yours yet as you hadn't paid for them, only a deposit. Technically they could not be DROS'd to you until they were paid in full. What if he had the 10 lowers that he ordered for you and you decided not to purchase them? What if the roles were reversed?

[russ69]

...Ive already been in contact with DOJ, ATF, Bakersfield PD as well as multiple news outlets in the Bakersfield area. He is in for a fun ride...

Why do any of those agencies care about a private transaction dispute? Dude, you need to take a deep breath and either get a refund for your deposit or buy the 4 lowers and move on with your life. This transaction is over, he didn't deliver.

[12voltguy]

So first off let me say, I'm not going to say names or put anyone on blast directly until I pick up my firearms. So I ordered 10 lowers in Dec to beat registration, I told the ffl id pay it off within 30 days which is in a week or so. All was good. I call him today to inform him id be in this week to pay em off and pick em up. He tells me "I sold 6 of em but I have 4 for ya" wtf?! So now he says he may not be able to get the 6 before the 30 day mark and if he does I will have to pay $20-$30 more per lower and pay shipping on em!!! What the ****?! Do I have any legal options?
Sent from FighterPilot's basement

I will out him as soon as I at least get my 4 lowers. Ive already been in contact with DOJ, ATF, Bakersfield PD as well as multiple news outlets in the Bakersfield area. He is in for a fun ride.

Sent from FighterPilot's basement

Ok,

It sucks that this happened to you. But other than poor business ethics, what did he do that was illegal? What did the DOJ, ATF and BFPD say to you? Technically they were not yours yet as you hadn't paid for them, only a deposit. Technically they could not be DROS'd to you until they were paid in full. What if he had the 10 lowers that he ordered for you and you decided not to purchase them? What if the roles were reversed?

[SonofWWIIDI]

IMO, the quote from librarian (currently quoted in the sig line of The Gleam) rings the truth!

Originally Posted by Librarian
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

The only benefit to public safety/LE would be if the tyrannical government of kommiefornia (or of the USA) attempted to confiscate all guns.

And Travis, I'm sorry to hear about the raw deal you're getting from that "retailer". I hope that after you get whatever portion of your order that you can, you out the SOB, so we can boycott that shop.

[Armando de la Guerra]

Ok,

It sucks that this happened to you. But other than poor business ethics, what did he do that was illegal? What did the DOJ, ATF and BFPD say to you? Technically they were not yours yet as you hadn't paid for them, only a deposit. Technically they could not be DROS'd to you until they were paid in full. What if he had the 10 lowers that he ordered for you and you decided not to purchase them? What if the roles were reversed?

I see a contractual obligation between the Travis and the dealer. A valid contract contains 5 essential elements; 1) Offer, 2) Acceptance, 3) Lawful Object, 4) Consideration and, 5) Competent Parties.

While it may be true that they were not his yet because he hadn't paid for them, the dealer had a contractual obligation to fulfill the promise to deliver them for payment. The consideration in this case was not cash, but a promise for a promise. The dealer promised to deliver the lowers and Travis promised to pay for them. The dealer breached the contract when he did not deliver the lowers. The dealer owes Travis the lowers.

And, the lowers could be DROS'd before they arrived. It's done all the time (until 1/1/2014)

[tileguy]

the plan to beat registration is now shot because the lgs will problably make you register and dros every one sepratley now that its 2014 so try to get back your 25% and do 80%ers then out the store

[ChuckDizzle]

If your receipt shows a quantity of 10 lowers ordered, and you put 25% as a deposit, the dealer owes you 10 lowers, not 4 and a whatever else he wants to throw in. I don't know what the time frame is for a small claims action in your area, here in my locality, the hearing is set usually about a month from filing.

That's awesome. In my county, and many of the surrounding small claims had been shut down for some time. They gave filing vouchers for statute of limitations reasons, but the backlog is huge. Of course the divorce courts were still getting funded, but if you got screwed buying a new muffler or something you really could do nothing for a few years.

[acorn]

I see a contractual obligation between the Travis and the dealer. A valid contract contains 5 essential elements; 1) Offer, 2) Acceptance, 3) Lawful Object, 4) Consideration and, 5) Competent Parties.

While it may be true that they were not his yet because he hadn't paid for them, the dealer had a contractual obligation to fulfill the promise to deliver them for payment. The consideration in this case was not cash, but a promise for a promise. The dealer promised to deliver the lowers and Travis promised to pay for them. The dealer breached the contract when he did not deliver the lowers. The dealer owes Travis the lowers.

And, the lowers could be DROS'd before they arrived. It's done all the time (until 1/1/2014)

Believe me I would like to agree with the OP but facts are facts. There may be a contractual obligation but there is no contractual agreement. Like I said before, what if the roles were reversed and the OP decided he no longer wanted the lowers? Other than losing his deposit would he be contractually obligated to purchase the lowers with in the 30 day mark or risk prosecution as the OP is seeking against the LGS? I would be PO'd too but legally there is nothing I could do.

And, I said the lowers could not be "DROS'd before they were paid in full" not before they arrived (please read my post again). Any dealer that would DROS a weapon before it is paid for is an idiot, after the DROS the weapon is register to the buyer and is legally owned.

[russ69]

I see a contractual obligation between the Travis and the dealer. A valid contract contains 5 essential elements; 1) Offer, 2) Acceptance, 3) Lawful Object, 4) Consideration and, 5) Competent Parties...

Good legal summary but what are his damages? He did not pay for all the receivers and he didn't get all the receivers. At best he is slightly inconvenienced. The recoverable monetary damages are negligible, not worth pursuing. I understand that the OP is disappointed, I would be also but I would not waste my time trying to get satisfaction from a dealer that obviously doesn't care if his customers are satisfied or not.

[MigNoche]

So you are planning on circumventing the law if something becomes illegal? C'mon let's be realistic. Based upon the most recent precedents by the Supreme Court, there is no way your fear of outright confiscation will be realized. It just wont happen. Stop with the "registration is the path to confiscation mantra." Are you worried that the state is going to confiscate your boat, or car? You register those do you not?