Front Site Training?

[trinydex]

You're not in CA anymore... My guess is the "vision" and direction Dr. Pizza espouses at the resort is uber-macho, uber-neo-con, and that means there's probably trainers/staff that espouse such homophobia. Sure would be sad to hear it given how overly "professional" they are reported to be.

well i just don't get where the anti gay stuff would come in... like picture:

you guys are here to learn how to handle firearms with safety, respect and ingrained subconscience trained in knowledge. btw you should hate gays....

i just don't see where any comments about gay people could creep in you know, it just seems so irrelavent.


maybe it's like... we don't tolerate people pointing their guns anywhere but down range. we don't tolerate gays or gay mariage. we don't tolerate whining. stop being a fairy. ???

something like that?

[AngelDecoys]

well i just don't get where the anti gay stuff would come in... like picture: .....

I've been many times and have never noticed anything remotely close. See my comments just before trinydex.

My guess is .......

trinydex. Ironchef has never been. He's speculating. See bold above. Let wait until Termagant responds.

[rkt88edmo]

You're not in CA anymore... My guess is the "vision" and direction Dr. Pizza espouses at the resort is uber-macho, uber-neo-con, and that means there's probably trainers/staff that espouse such homophobia. Sure would be sad to hear it given how overly "professional" they are reported to be.

If any of that were true on an organizational basis you would hear about it in spades. FS, like the NRA training branch, takes being open and welcoming very seriously.

[azndmd]

I've been out there for about 8 courses so far with another on the calender in September. Never ever heard anything that is homophobic.

I'm a civilian...learned how to shoot from friends at the local shooting range. The courses at FS is disciplined..the Range Instructors follow a course outline to make sure that they are teaching skills consistently...nothing wrong with that. FS has elevated my awareness level of using a firearm and along with some basic tactics when confronted with an intruder in your house and how to 'clear' the house to either get out and go for help, or to search and secure your family members. Couldn't do that at the local indoor range.

So far...I really like FS..

[Ironchef]

well i just don't get where the anti gay stuff would come in... like picture:

you guys are here to learn how to handle firearms with safety, respect and ingrained subconscience trained in knowledge. btw you should hate gays....

i just don't see where any comments about gay people could creep in you know, it just seems so irrelavent.


maybe it's like... we don't tolerate people pointing their guns anywhere but down range. we don't tolerate gays or gay mariage. we don't tolerate whining. stop being a fairy. ???

something like that?

Well, it wasn't my comment

...but often irritatingly exclusive- homophobic, mysogynistic in an apparently unintended way, and annoyingly self-congratulatory.

But given the normal nature of men in the gun culture, I can see it come out in banter..obviously not professional instruction...("Take aim like it's a ***got that just took your gun rights away!"). Sadly, I've seen the oddest people let their feelings out about various things from gays, to liberals, to conservatives, to all races, etc..just from basic, comfortable conversation. I've even had friends say a little to much and it's some sad stuff...so I can imagine ending a lecture or some instructional period and chit chatting with a staff member and hearing or overhearing some colorful banter. Testosterone was MADE for coming to resorts like FS!!

[Nemo]

Ironchef, you're right on the mark there--the stuff I didn't like consisted of unneccessary, revealing comments in banter during lectures (I took the course with Termagant).

I should specify, NONE of the frustrating stuff came from the instructors on the line--they were absolutely skilled, personable and respectful, even when pushing us hard to get things right. Our instructor and line coaches were guys I would invite into my house; they were completely even-handed, even when they were indulging in humor ("put that gun gently back into the holster, like you were tickling a trout") . No troubles there.

The misogynist/homophobic/general macho comments came from the one of the lecturers, deHuillier. A couple of instances I remember: "they teach all sorts of crap in schools now, the gay agenda and all that, but not gun safety," said with a tone of utter disgust. He was relating a story about a kid of his acquaintance who had gotten suspended for wearing a Ruger T-shirt to school.

In the lecture that included a demonstration of how to handle the police response to a self-defense shooting, the demo degenerated into a strange sort of gay panic joke, in which you had to be careful when shooting a home invader in San Francisco, since the cops there might feel you up while booking you. It was precisely that "a little too much" that came out several times.

None of this was horribly offensive, just enough to make me want to roll my eyes a few times. I have no problem with colorful banter, mind you, and I can dish it out myself. When it's unnecessary and presented in a formal lecture that I can't easily respond to, I'm not so pleased. It added enough to the general atmosphere that I'm not going to be buying a membership; why should I pay good money to feel alienated?
Great training though, no question there, and I'm glad I went.

[trinydex]

ic ic, i didn't find those relavent to guns, probably coulda been done without. i see how it's inappropriate.

[AngelDecoys]

......

Yikes....... I'm sure Wes was just lighting up the mood since the lecture was talking about possible scenarios after a shooting. (Like being handcuffed, arrested, and thrown into the back of an officers car even though you're the victim and the home owner). That part shocks everyone but the LE present.

Gets a little too serious in there talking about Problems 1 and 2.
Like NOT doing a happy dance on the corpse of the intruder. And suggesting that was NOT the time to boast to the LE about the size of your group

Anyway Nemo, I hope you don't mind, but I forwarded the comments to Naish. If nothing else, that's not the perception he'd like someone leaving FS to have. I'll call him Monday and follow up. I'm NOT connected with the organiazation in any way. Just a long time student. You'ld be surprised how often he picks up the phone directly when one calls.

Enjoy your weekend.

[trinydex]

Anyway Nemo, I hope you don't mind, but I forwarded the comments to Naish. If nothing else, that's not the perception he'd like someone leaving FS to have.

wouldn't think so either. i saw pictures of the pride parade this year and one of the first pics had a sign that said armed gays don't get bashed. seems like there'd be a growing constituent of gun owners in sf.