Front Site Training?

[Ironchef]

Just wondering what your opinion is of Front Site? More so if you have actually gone to a training class or are a member. I just sat through their 90 minute DVD and watched Dr. Pizza do his best Captain America spiel and while I'm not terribly impressed with him, I am with his school/resort and his courses.

Turns out it's $4900 to be a member for life..and you can come and go and take most of the classes as often as you'd like..for life. Otherwise, you can just go and pay retail for the courses at 1k or 2k a pop.

Are his courses really the best, and do you really get put in the top 1% of shooters in the nation by going as claimed?

I'm considering joining. Thanks.

[odysseus]

You can take FS classes without having to sign up in at a membership level. There are many certificates floating about that allow first timers in to a class at very substancial discount below 1k-2k a pop.

I haven't been there in a couple of years, but the people and the instructors are good. I have had good experiences there. Facilities are decent enough. I do not have a membership there. It's a long way to Parhump too..

The only criticism I would mention is probably echoed about on the hard sell Piazza is known for doing and playing around with all the deals around. This top 1% stuff is a first for me to hear; that's up to you if you think that is the truth.

I would recommend taking a 4 day class or something there to get a feel for it.

.

[Spaceghost]

I am a member and have attended two four day classes. Defensive handgun and the practical rifle. I think the facility is top notch and great training can be had there. Top 1% of shooters stuff? Well, that's a bold statement. I would get one of the first time certs for cheap, take a class and see if you like it. That's what I did.

[Ironchef]

The certificates are pretty cool. A cert will give you either one 4 day course, or two 2 day courses for free. Very cool. But if you go there to redeem your certificate...i'm sure you'll end up sitting through a lengthy "time share" type schpiel.

If I don't join, I may just do that 4 day defensive handgun course for $1200 that gives you a free XD (in any cal) and a bunch of other gear. Heck of a bargain.

Yeah, I think the good "Doctor" is the one that guarantees you'll have better firearms training than 99% of the gun owning population in the country.

[Spaceghost]

Let's do the math.

100 dollar 4 day cert that can be used for the four day class.
Springfield XD 600 after tax and dros.
XD gear 100 bucks or so?

So that's 800 vs. 1200. Not the best deal IMO.

Last time I was there, no hard selling, just a 15 minute conversation. No big deal.

[saber]

I took the practical rifle course earlier this year and I loved it. I ended up getting a certificate for free due to a promotion they were having.

What I really liked were that the instructors were top notch. I had been afraid that they had the "boot camp mentality" but they were really professional. We had one guy in our group that really didn't know what he was doing and the instructor worked with him in a very polite and professional manner. He wasn't shouting at him or pulling the whole drill instructor routine.

During our rifle course, we got to do a couple of low light and night time shoots, which I had never done before. They even had a guy show up with an M16 and shoot some tracers for our entertainment.

Don't be worried about the time share sales attitude. There was maybe a 15 minute presentation during lunch and it was very low key.

Go ahead, get a certificate and take a class.

[Ironchef]

Let's do the math.

100 dollar 4 day cert that can be used for the four day class.
Springfield XD 600 after tax and dros.
XD gear 100 bucks or so?

So that's 800 vs. 1200. Not the best deal IMO.

Last time I was there, no hard selling, just a 15 minute conversation. No big deal.

I think you lost me with the math. The stand alone class, for example the 4 day defensive pistol class, is $1200 on promotion which includes a bunch of gear, belt, the xd and xd gear. I was saying that's a great deal because of the value of the gun being $600 making the class only $600. Not sure there's a better deal they offer. Or were you comparing it with a free course using a certificate? Do you have a certificate you can offer me?

[pwhitbeck]

Hi -- new member, first post...

I took the four-day defensive handgun course in May -- via the Free Gun & Gear deal.

I was prepared for some hard-sell if not a bit of "cult of personality" around Dr. Piazza but, except for the short video, there was none of that. In fact, after the first day's introduction, Dr. Piazza's name never came up.

Instruction was first-rate as was the facility -- and that's truly an understatement. One statement you'll hear over and over, and it is very true for me is "I didn't know how much I didn't know". I decided on the spot to take more courses and to send Wife, daughter and son which made buying a lifetime membership (included four certificates) a very good value.

My class had men, women, families and even three SOCOM Marines.

In fact, Frontsight is where I heard about Calguns and had my eyes opened up to the whole OLL thing.

I agree with the posters above -- get your hands on a certificate or do the Gun & Gear deal for your first course.

[ohsmily]

I did a 2 day defensive handgun with my wife. It was great. I recommend their classes. But, I wouldn't pay full list retail price for the classes.

If you want THE BEST, go to a place like Thunder Ranch or Gunsite, BUT Front Sight is more than sufficient for most people's training needs.

[Nemo]

I got a cheap first-timer certificate from a Calgunner and took the 4-day Handgun course with my GF back in April. The facility was great (tho no running water, not surprising out by Pahrump); the instructors and range officers were all great, encouraging, tough and often even insightful as well, though there is a high instructor-to-student ratio. I skipped the membership spiel and ate my lunch over at the car instead.

The trouble I had was with the lectures...that edge-of-paranoia, us-vs-them attitude, sprinkled with occasional homophobic and misogynist bull, was pretty off-putting, enough to discourage me from getting a membership.

The training, however, was very effective. My GF and I went from being slow, cautious and relatively unfamiliar with semiauto handguns before the course, to competing in handgun matches afterward. The drills really get your draw, trigger discipline, sight picture and follow-through embedded in your body. I had a great time in the tactical house and at the night shoot, as well.

Overall, 4 days of 12-hour-a-day training is well worth the certificate, the experiment, and the trek.

[AngelDecoys]

My Take. I'm a Diamond Member. I've been a member since the beginning in Bakersfield when Naish actually taught. I'm biased.

Think of a FS membership in the same light as a season pass to a ski resort. You hope there will be enough snow to ski, and you hope to get a lot of use out of it. You hope to go x number of times/year or per lifetime. #1 -IMHO, buy for the training opportunities, not for the promises of development. If you can do that, you'll never be disappointed.

In other words, while I like the fact that my ski resort donates money to charity, in the end I buy a season pass for the skiing. And Kirkwood just opened 2 more lifts this year.

Is there better training? Yes, but they do a great job of getting a person from the basics to competent. If you already have shoot and move drills down, 5 count draw, can clear malfunctions on command (no matter whatever gun you own), you have the basics down. Below that, the basic FS membership will get you there. Above that, FS will be great for improvement, and 'technique' re-inforcement.

(Do you focus on your front sight when shooting in your dreams? - Are you Subconsciously competent ). Tactics, M16, Uzi, Advanced tactics, integrated handgun, precision rifle (I,II) are excellent courses. You'll have to qualify for the higher level stuff.

As far as the sales go, there's no hard sell at all. Again, tune out the sales pitch, the exchange in abundance, and buy for the training.

[Ironchef]

Great reviews from you all, thanks! And welcome to the new guy..phw..something!

And I do realize now that there's more than one membership. THe DVD I got showed the Legacy membership being 4900..which is what that patriot membership is. Maybe they should update their site..unless it's intended to be a dvd offer or something.

Well I'm hoping to throw some cash together and do something...judge if I'll get down there at least 3x in my life or not. Time off, flight or drive to vegas, lodging, ammo, food, etc can add up and is included when I work out the total value..so we'll see. I keep asking myself this question:
"Do I want to spend $1500ish or $5500 ish to become a much more competent shooter with the guns I have, or spend that cash on more and better guns and maintain my shabby, semi-competent shooting abilities with those guns (like an M1A, completed .223 OLL, etc.).

[AngelDecoys]

"Do I want to spend $1500ish or $5500 ish to become a much more competent shooter with the guns I have, or spend that cash on more and better guns and maintain my shabby, semi-competent shooting abilities with those guns (like an M1A, completed .223 OLL, etc.).

That is always the question people ask. You're not alone in that. You might give them a call and ask what their latest 'exchange in abundance' is going right now. Or go and while taking a course, see what the onsite offer is for the weekend. It varies.

It would not be unlike 'Father Naish', if you called and he worked his magic trading a class (one you might not ever use) for one you are interested, as well as opting for an extra class without the gun/gear.

You might also consider camping outside the gates on BLM land if funds are an issue. I've never been able to deal with the supposed 'non-smoking' rooms and prefer to camp right outside the gate.

Its a good option for a 2 day course and there often are others doing the same thing. There was a time (when I was on a short leash with my wife), that $300 weekend of driving, camping, and eating became possible (provided the car is fuel efficient and carries 4).

[Ironchef]

Haha, camping outside the gates? You'd think with the impression Dr Pizza is giving that he'd bulldoze you for doing that so his targetted rich clientelle wouldn't see the rabble not willing to pay for a hotel room! lol

But yeah, that seems like a fun thing to do.

[GlockGuy]

I just finished taking the 4 day handgun defensive course and the CCW course on the 5th day. I bought the $1,200 package as I thought it was a reasonable price for what was offered. After taking the courses I still think it was a bargain. As others have said, top notch instruction, and in our squad, a 1 instructor to 4 student ratio. Plenty of personal instruction, given in a polite caring manner. My skills VASTLY improved.

As far as the sales pitch, one 15 minute movie, and a few remarks at the closing ceremonies, and that was it. No pressure at all.

I did not buy any sort of membership as I'm self employed and it's too tough for me to take time off, and they are a long ways away from me. But I hope someday to take the advanced tacticle handgun courses.