Front Sight …Opinions please

[USMCbrat]

[sammy]

I have wondered the same thing. I looked to take the 4 day pistol class....$2000.00 With plane fare, hotel and ammo it could easily be over $3000.00. When I get rich I will check back with them.

[F-2_Challenger]

First of all it is a big place. I have not taken any classes there, but have visited it when I was in vegas. It looks nice. You know everything that they have from the media plug.

Time to save you some money only if you are a first time student. Check this out, I know it on egay.

http://search.ebay.com/front-sight_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQdfspZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsbrsrtZd

You will be able to get a 4 day class for about 100.00 bucks. A lot more appealing I think.

For 100.00 bucks I will go for a weekend and really not care about the room and board because its still going to be a lot less then 2 grand.

[USMCbrat]

http://search.ebay.com/front-sight_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQdfspZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsbrsrtZd

You will be able to get a 4 day class for about 100.00 bucks. A lot more appealing I think.

For 100.00 bucks I will go for a weekend and really not care about the room and board because its still going to be a lot less then 2 grand.

Ummm... it says $1000.

[moulton]

First of all it is a big place. I have not taken any classes there, but have visited it when I was in vegas. It looks nice. You know everything that they have from the media plug.

Time to save you some money only if you are a first time student. Check this out, I know it on egay.

http://search.ebay.com/front-sight_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQdfspZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsbrsrtZd

You will be able to get a 4 day class for about 100.00 bucks. A lot more appealing I think.

For 100.00 bucks I will go for a weekend and really not care about the room and board because its still going to be a lot less then 2 grand.

I bought a certificate for my brother from this guy http://www.fscerts.com/
Awsome service and very informative packet, plus the cert was only $106 shipped. I already had a cert for placing a frontsight add on my myspace that I received a few months ago. We are both planning on going to FS at the end of march for the 4 day practical rifle. We are staying in Vegas with relatives and are being very frugal with cash.... We may even be able to go for under $700 with $200 budgeted in ammo.

[AngelDecoys]

Training is excellent. On parr if not better than any of its competitors. Most of the instructors are all ex 20+ year LE, or retired military. There are alot of soldiers who visit FS these days to polish their skills before heading to the sand box. I don't know about you, but hearing soldiers say they get valuable training over military training says something to me. Worth every penny for the training.

Yes, you will here the offer for memberships. Its not a hard sell. In fact, I'd say the discussion borders on the level of the exact opposite.

I have wondered the same thing. I looked to take the 4 day pistol class....$2000.00 With plane fare, hotel and ammo it could easily be over $3000.00. When I get rich I will check back with them.

$2000 is relative isn't it? I've spent more on scopes. What's the initial fee for a membership in most golf courses? 70-80k? So, is it worth the value of one rifle/scope setup to actually be able to be competent with a rifle/pistol/ shotgun? Front Sight is not catering to the hillbilly. It caters to the 'high end' serious students. How much is your life worth?

So many people that head out there say things like "I've been shooting my whole life, what could I actually learn?" They come away with, "Wow how could I have gone this long knowing so little."

I'm biased of course, but Front Sight is excellent. The level of training is exceptional.

[Quiet]

Front Sight provides excellent training. Well, worth the time & resources involved to attend their courses.

If you search on eBay, you can get 4-day certificates for around $100.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=front+sight+certificate&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D2&fgtp=

[rkt88edmo]

I sell the grey FS certificates also if you want to buy from a calgunner, I prefer only to sell them to people who are planning to go.

There will be some kind of sales pitch during one of the lunch hours -mainly a video similar to the DVD, but I think they mainly push a "lifetime membership" that is good for the basic 4day and 2day courses (depends on what the current "limited offer" they have going on is. I don't consider it to be a "hard sell" and they aren't pushy about it, but the video is of course designed to push your "buy" button. You don't have to sit through the video at lunch time, you can eat womewhere else outside of the big lecture hall, or you can just hang out in back and ignore it. Granted, there aren't really tables to sit down and eat at anywhere else

There are lots of descriptions about the training on various internet forums - including this one. The 4-day classes will provide a range of benefit depending on how much self defense and firearms training you already have. If the answer is "little to none" than you will probably benefit quite a bit.

Thoughts from Rawles:

http://www.survivalblog.com/2006/05/two_letters_re_firearms_traini.html

Wiki on Gunsite (see the list of former Gunsite instructor's almost all of whom have their own schools or are traveling instructors)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunsite_Training_Center

Front Sight/Piazza can be considered students of Chuck Taylor, or at least his "school of thought".

This is probably one of the best comparisons I've read on the net:

http://thecurmudgeon.freeservers.com/fa-index.html

And if you read that last one I would say that if you can afford the trip to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch - you can probably afford to take a trip to Front Sight before either those and would benefit from seeing the differences in the classes as well as figuring out what you want out of training and how to make your training experience at the GS or TR more productive.

Lastly, I haven't been reading a lot of training reviews lately, and if there is anything interest or informative to read about GS in the "post Cooper" (RIP) era, that anyone has read, please throw a linky in here. I'm sure they are getting along just fine though.

[F-2_Challenger]

Ummm... it says $1000.

look at the whole page please.

[rkt88edmo]

Also - be aware that there is a $50 background check fee that is not included in the certificate so for total costs you are looking at:

Tuition ($100 for grey cert if first time)
$50 background check
Place to stay
Food to eat
Ammo costs (depends on what you shoot - but must be factory new - not reloads, wolf OK)
Travel costs
optional gun rental is $100 for four days if you know someone who wants to go but doesn't have their own gear - I'm not sure if you would be obligated to buy the ammo from FS in that case.

Hopefully you already have your own ear and eye protection.

Do not plan on gambling and going out each night after class, unless you are already acustomed to being outdoors all day long in Nevada's desert. Most people are extremely tired at the end of each day of training.

Lastly - you can use the grey certificate for one person to take a four day course - or for two people to take the two day course. I'd stronly recommend that you NOT take the two day course because you only are a "first timer" once, and days 3 & 4 get more interesting (simulators etc.) and allow you to practice and polish all the stuff you learn on days 1 & 2.

[GJJ]

They will teach you weapons manipulation skills if you are not familiar with your firearm.

To learn how to FIGHT, you need to have people trying to shoot back. You will learn 1000X more about what it takes to stay alive by playing paintball in an urban scenario. You will EXPERIENCE what it takes to stay alive.

Furthermore, do you have a teenage kid? Buy two airsoft pistols and practice going through the house where one person searches and the other lays in ambush. You will learn the sweet spots in your own home. This will be your most likely place of battle.

The gunschools are largely "Disneyland with guns" for old guys. They can teach you so many things that will get you killed. Here is what they won't teach you about fighting a KNOWN bad guy in your house.

1. You will shoot one handed.
2. You will or better be moving.
3. You will not use your sights.
4. Your finger better be on the trigger.

Don't believe me? Try your own force on force experiment. Shooting paper targets is preparation for gun fighting. It is not gun fighting.

[highmeh]

optional gun rental is $100 for four days if you know someone who wants to go but doesn't have their own gear - I'm not sure if you would be obligated to buy the ammo from FS in that case.

You must buy their Magtech ammo if using their guns. The person I went with purchased their Magtech .45 at just under $1/rd.

I attended Frontsight in 06 and did the 2-day defensive pistol class. What can I say about it, except it's a great foundation. If you expect to be running and gunning, rolling in the dirt and shooting from cover, this isn't the class for you. What it is, is a very focused, safe, moderately paced introduction to carrying, presenting, and firing a pistol. My shooting did improve, and my comfort carrying in a holster increased tenfold. There was one "realistic" shoothouse scenario, which was a lot of fun.

They have 'classes' each day during lunch; you are not obligated to stay for them. My group of 4 people chose instead to drive into Pahrump and have lunch without the sales pitches. From what I understand, there was no high-pressure sales pitch, it was simply "If you're interested there are applications up front" followed by a video.

In retrospect, for the $50 i paid for a grey cert, i think it was worth every penny. I would hesitate to spend $2000 for the training however, knowing that places like TDI, Gunsite, etc all exist.

Pick up a cert and take at least a 2 day; if you like it, great...if not, you had two days of solid shooting and got to open carry in Pahrump

[rkt88edmo]

I would have to say that they do teach those things - but not in the entry level 4-day course that you will get with a gray cert - and I am defintely not saying that airsofting or paintballing on your own isn't a good idea.

"Force on force" training has really changed training doctrines in the last 10 years or so and can not be ignored.

No one is going to claim to teach you everything you need to know in two or four days - the introductory classes end up being "eye openers" to what is out there and many trainers have those courses as well. For an additional fee of course

They will teach you weapons manipulation skills if you are not familiar with your firearm.

To learn how to FIGHT, you need to have people trying to shoot back. You will learn 1000X more about what it takes to stay alive by playing paintball in an urban scenario. You will EXPERIENCE what it takes to stay alive.

Furthermore, do you have a teenage kid? Buy two airsoft pistols and practice going through the house where one person searches and the other lays in ambush. You will learn the sweet spots in your own home. This will be your most likely place of battle.

The gunschools are largely "Disneyland with guns" for old guys. They can teach you so many things that will get you killed. Here is what they won't teach you about fighting a KNOWN bad guy in your house.

1. You will shoot one handed.
2. You will or better be moving.
3. You will not use your sights.
4. Your finger better be on the trigger.

Don't believe me? Try your own force on force experiment. Shooting paper targets is preparation for gun fighting. It is not gun fighting.

[saber]

I just attended the 4 day practical rifle course and had a great time. I got one of those free certificates for adding a link to them on my myspace page.

Here is what I ended up spending for the course:

1.) $50 background check
2.) $200 in ammo for the 4 day course
3.) $400 for a hotel in Vegas (big mistake, should've gotten one in Pahrump)
4.) $100 in gas (drove from So Cal)
5.) $100 in food

Probably one of the best things about it were the instructors. They were very positive and offered me a lot of constructive suggestions. We also got to do a night shoot which was frankly totally awesome.

I am very excited to do it again.

[ohsmily]

They will teach you weapons manipulation skills if you are not familiar with your firearm.

To learn how to FIGHT, you need to have people trying to shoot back. You will learn 1000X more about what it takes to stay alive by playing paintball in an urban scenario. You will EXPERIENCE what it takes to stay alive.

Furthermore, do you have a teenage kid? Buy two airsoft pistols and practice going through the house where one person searches and the other lays in ambush. You will learn the sweet spots in your own home. This will be your most likely place of battle.

The gunschools are largely "Disneyland with guns" for old guys. They can teach you so many things that will get you killed. Here is what they won't teach you about fighting a KNOWN bad guy in your house.

1. You will shoot one handed.
2. You will or better be moving.
3. You will not use your sights.
4. Your finger better be on the trigger.

Don't believe me? Try your own force on force experiment. Shooting paper targets is preparation for gun fighting. It is not gun fighting.

So, which class did YOU take? You seriously think that these schools don't teach all of the above (with the exception of 'having your finger on the trigger' which is arguably not a good idea depending on the situation unless you want to shoot someone you didn't intend to?

All of the concepts that you just referred to are taught in the advanced classes.

You won't get that stuff in the beginner level handgun classes because they want to instill fundamentals before approaching advanced and difficult skills.

So, which advanced handgun class did you take and at which shooting school?

To answer the OP, I paid 150 (including background check fee) for a 2 day class for my wife and I. It was the beginning Defensive Handgun class and it was fantastic. Great facility and instructors. I can't speak to the advanced classes from personal experience, but you can read about the topics covered in their course descriptions.