Gun World Burbank - never going back (rant)

[RoadKing]

OP, is it your position that racking the slide and deciding what that "feels like" factors in to a decision whether to buy a high end 1911?

I understand trigger pull, but what is slide racking supposed to feel like?

If I were buying a 2K 1911, I would want one that nobody else had finger banged or dry fired. So would you. If a shop only has one or two, well, it makes sense to me.

Hi Citadelgrad87, yes, how the gun feels when racking (tight, loose, smooth, gritty, does it catch at certain points in the slide movement, etc.) absolutely matters when buying a high end 1911.

As for not wanting your "new" gun not to be manipulated before you purchase it, well that just isn't reality. Not only was it manipulated by the manufacturer, probably 50-100 times in the process of putting it together and setting it up, it was also (hold on to your britches!!!) FIRED in order to make sure it functioned. And then it was probably (almost certainly) fired again to test the zero of the sights.

If you have a barrel that is coated and may be damaged by multiple rackings then maybe I see it, but on a SS barrel that has already been fired??? And I am betting the trigger has been dry fired more than a few times in order to fine tune the trigger job.

[RoadKing]

now let me fill you in a bit a 3000 gun does not make it perfect it means you bought a "name" you can brag about,you want a sweet slick 1911 have one BUILT to your specs, but that mean you will have to lay out the $$$ before you get to finger it but you will also have the option of having the smith "fix" whatever issue you have with ... walking into a shop and saying i want to look at your high end 1911's says you dont know what you want ....

Thank you jeepers for reminding me what the process was for getting my current Nighthawk

But on a more serious point, you are absolutely right, when you get a gun custom built there is a responsibility by the builder to fine tune it for you to your specifications. A gun shop has no such responsibility and places of business who have the kind of attitude about sales that you and some others who have posted in this thread think is correct are the kind of shops that give you a BS excuse about your problems when you come back two days later with an issue. Their answer is usually " not my problem, go talk to the manufacturer". Then you get to spend a few $100 more on a gun you just spent $3k on that was supposed to be perfect. Major function issues are going back to the manufacturer, but fit and finish and trigger are all items easily checked at the store, if they allow you. Buyer be ware...

Your comment that my wife doesn't know what she wants is incorrect. She knows what she wants, she doesn't know WHICH one she wants. The point of trying out the pistols is to answer that question so we can PURCHASE one.

Regarding the damage on the pistol she liked, yep, wouldn't buy it. But the wear on the muzzle end from use wasn't an issue, the multiple idiot scratches, caused by an owner who didn't know what they were doing when assembling the pistol was the issue. When was the last time you inspected a high end 1911 in a gun store and took it apart?? As a ton of people in the thread have already stated, basic, proper use of the pistol mechanism is not damaging.

[Citadelgrad87]

Hi Citadelgrad87, yes, how the gun feels when racking (tight, loose, smooth, gritty, does it catch at certain points in the slide movement, etc.) absolutely matters when buying a high end 1911.

As for not wanting your "new" gun not to be manipulated before you purchase it, well that just isn't reality. Not only was it manipulated by the manufacturer, probably 50-100 times in the process of putting it together and setting it up, it was also (hold on to your britches!!!) FIRED in order to make sure it functioned. And then it was probably (almost certainly) fired again to test the zero of the sights.

If you have a barrel that is coated and may be damaged by multiple rackings then maybe I see it, but on a SS barrel that has already been fired??? And I am betting the trigger has been dry fired more than a few times in order to fine tune the trigger job.

I am not sure if you are attempting to appear more knowledgeable than me, or condescending, but if this was picked up on by the clerk, maybe that accounts for your dissatisfaction. Again, it may be unintentional, but there's more than a whiff of lording over both knowledge and "high end". Just something to consider. EDIT--to be clear, I am not bent out of shape or trying to pick a fight, we are both adults, I am just telling you how some statements come across, I have thick skin and would appreciate it if and when others tell me when I am doing something of which I am unaware.

I own several 1911s, my favorite is a Colt Commanding Officer's model, stainless, that was reworked by Terry Tussey, all in it was more than the models you are talking about, and this was 15 years ago that I paid for it, so you are far from the only one in the room with expertise. And I restate, what are you looking for in a high end 1911 slide racking exercise? Of course I have handled 1911s, particularly the early stainless ones, circa 1980s, that would gall and catch, do Ed Browns do this? Aren't the slides on "high end" 1911s hand fitted to the frames, peened, etc? How could one end up with a "loose" slide fit on such a weapon? I haven't handled one, so I am asking, do people pay $2000 for a 1911 that has poor frame fit? What's the advantage to "high end" if so? These are hand assembled and fitted, correct?

And I used the phrase finger banged and dry fired, because that's exactly what I meant. I am talking about people handling the weapon at a store before I buy it, I don't have some idea that a machine stamps out fully assembled 1911s.

There is a gigantic difference between the manipulation necessary to assemble a firearm at the factory and the punishment someone can dole out at a counter in a shop, particularly when they are playing with someone elses' firearm.

Nobody thinks the weapon they purchase is truly unfired, or a car that has never been started. But you surely agree that there is a difference between whatever function testing a builder does, on the one hand, and the shop guys going out back and running a few boxes of ammo through a "new" firearm, then tossing it back in the case, or taking a new car to Vegas for the weekend, then putting it back on the lot as new, right?

[HonkingAntelope]

If you really are serious about plunking down $3000+ on a 1911, why not call the shop and ask to setup an appointment and to make sure some light gun handling will not be an issue (as others mentioned, having the gun cost a lot of money won't guarantee that it'll fit your own preference sight-unseen unless it's custom built)?

The store probably had one too many bad experiences with tire-kickers.

[RoadKing]

I am not sure if you are attempting to appear more knowledgeable than me, or condescending, but if this was picked up on by the clerk, maybe that accounts for your dissatisfaction. Again, it may be unintentional, but there's more than a whiff of lording over both knowledge and "high end". Just something to consider. EDIT--to be clear, I am not bent out of shape or trying to pick a fight, we are both adults, I am just telling you how some statements come across, I have thick skin and would appreciate it if and when others tell me when I am doing something of which I am unaware.

I own several 1911s, my favorite is a Colt Commanding Officer's model, stainless, that was reworked by Terry Tussey, all in it was more than the models you are talking about, and this was 15 years ago that I paid for it, so you are far from the only one in the room with expertise. And I restate, what are you looking for in a high end 1911 slide racking exercise? Of course I have handled 1911s, particularly the early stainless ones, circa 1980s, that would gall and catch, do Ed Browns do this? Aren't the slides on "high end" 1911s hand fitted to the frames, peened, etc? How could one end up with a "loose" slide fit on such a weapon? I haven't handled one, so I am asking, do people pay $2000 for a 1911 that has poor frame fit? What's the advantage to "high end" if so? These are hand assembled and fitted, correct?

And I used the phrase finger banged and dry fired, because that's exactly what I meant. I am talking about people handling the weapon at a store before I buy it, I don't have some idea that a machine stamps out fully assembled 1911s.

There is a gigantic difference between the manipulation necessary to assemble a firearm at the factory and the punishment someone can dole out at a counter in a shop, particularly when they are playing with someone elses' firearm.

Nobody thinks the weapon they purchase is truly unfired, or a car that has never been started. But you surely agree that there is a difference between whatever function testing a builder does, on the one hand, and the shop guys going out back and running a few boxes of ammo through a "new" firearm, then tossing it back in the case, or taking a new car to Vegas for the weekend, then putting it back on the lot as new, right?

Not trying to sound codescending or more knowledgeable than anyone, just answering what I thought you posted as an honest straight forward question. I guess I should have add "to me" at the end. I can tell the difference between the Nighthawk and Kimber I have when I shoot them or handle them. Its's hard to explain but they just feel different. I am sure you had a similar experience with your Colt in the before and after phases of having it worked on.

Ok, the hang on to your britches comment was a little snarky...

As for what I am looking for in a slide racking exercise, fit and function. If you got your colt back from Tussey and every time you racked the slide it caught you wouldn't be happy with it right? Now stand yourself at the counter looking at expensive, hand crafted 1911s. you don't have a gunsmith to fall back on if there is an issue. You would want to check every easily checkable part of the gun before you purchased it right?

[Citadelgrad87]

Not trying to sound codescending or more knowledgeable than anyone, just answering what I thought you posted as an honest straight forward question. I guess I should have add "to me" at the end. I can tell the difference between the Nighthawk and Kimber I have when I shoot them or handle them. Its's hard to explain but they just feel different. I am sure you had a similar experience with your Colt in the before and after phases of having it worked on.

Ok, the hang on to your britches comment was a little snarky...

As for what I am looking for in a slide racking exercise, fit and function. If you got your colt back from Tussey and every time you racked the slide it caught you wouldn't be happy with it right? Now stand yourself at the counter looking at expensive, hand crafted 1911s. you don't have a gunsmith to fall back on if there is an issue. You would want to check every easily checkable part of the gun before you purchased it right?

OK, I get you. It was an honest question, based on my ignorance of what Ed Brown, et al is hanging 3000 price tags on. I would pay 2-3K for a .45, I have done so. I just ASSumed that if it said Ed Brown on it, you knew you were good to go. This appears not to be the case. Things were simpler when all you had to do to get a great 1911 was buy a Colt, then spend a lot of money.

On the one hand, I see that you are putting down a substantial amount of money on something, and want to check it out. On the other, it's $3K, it's going to be properly hand fitted, etc.

I guess likening it to a car, go ahead and run my credit, but I am not buying a car without driving it, I don't care what it says on the badge. Hmm, I think you convinced me.

Have you considered taking a plain Jane and having someone go over it to bring it up to your specs? Tussey used to be local to me, but he moved away years ago. The fit and finish on that Colt are pretty amazing. It's tight and slicker than goose snot.

I do understand the shop owner's concern that you're just another lookie loo, there must be a way to distinguish tire kickers from legitimate buyers.

[InGrAM]

Welcome to Calguns OP. As you can see, it is full of assclowns.

[Huge Grant]

A lot of good arguments, and arguers, on this thread. I've changed camps like 3 times reading through this thing. I'm just glad I'm broke and don't have to worry about this "high-end" thing!

[russ69]

The trigger and slide isn't going to be broken in until you have a few hundred rounds through it. That's why a Les Bear cost a few dollars extra. If it's not to your liking, they will make it right. I'm with the shop on this one, that's why it was zip tied to start with.

[Beetle Bailey]

You can try Martin B Retting in Culver City or head south to Orange County to visit Fowler's and Stockade. Fowler's let me and a friend check out a Wilson Combat SuperGrade. This was after we told the salesman we weren't buying that day. We even racked the slide and pulled the trigger (we both held the hammer so it would not drop when we pulled the trigger). Don't know if any of these shops have an Ed Brown, but they usually have a decent selection of 1911's. HTH

[RoadKing]

You can try Martin B Retting in Culver City or head south to Orange County to visit Fowler's and Stockade. Fowler's let me and a friend check out a Wilson Combat SuperGrade. This was after we told the salesman we weren't buying that day. We even racked the slide and pulled the trigger (we both held the hammer so it would not drop when we pulled the trigger). Don't know if any of these shops have an Ed Brown, but they usually have a decent selection of 1911's. HTH

Thanks for the info! I will have to give them a call and see what they have and then maybe the wife will want to take a drive down there. If she finds one she likes it will be a done deal!

[RoadKing]

OK, I get you. It was an honest question, based on my ignorance of what Ed Brown, et al is hanging 3000 price tags on. I would pay 2-3K for a .45, I have done so. I just ASSumed that if it said Ed Brown on it, you knew you were good to go. This appears not to be the case. Things were simpler when all you had to do to get a great 1911 was buy a Colt, then spend a lot of money.

On the one hand, I see that you are putting down a substantial amount of money on something, and want to check it out. On the other, it's $3K, it's going to be properly hand fitted, etc.

I guess likening it to a car, go ahead and run my credit, but I am not buying a car without driving it, I don't care what it says on the badge. Hmm, I think you convinced me.

Have you considered taking a plain Jane and having someone go over it to bring it up to your specs? Tussey used to be local to me, but he moved away years ago. The fit and finish on that Colt are pretty amazing. It's tight and slicker than goose snot.

I do understand the shop owner's concern that you're just another lookie loo, there must be a way to distinguish tire kickers from legitimate buyers.

Cool deal. I personally like the idea of getting one done up by a gunsmith for my next 1911, and even have someone I would want to do the work, but this is the wife's choice since it is her gun.

Hopefully she finds one that feels right and is happy with it. And then, maybe someday in the future I will be allowed to get one to let a gunsmith play with!

[CS25]

I went there for a PPT, and right off the bat the people behind the desk were jerks. Then they wanted to charge $55. We then went to Aegis. I cant stand typical gunstore b.s.!

[locosway]

I'm not spending $3k for a firearm with a scratch on it... think about it.

while I understand your rant... I disagree with it. A Glock, A Sig... fine go ahead finger it all you want.

Try walking into the Ferrari dealership and ask for a test drive. See what happens. After the credit check, they will ask to see your Car Ins POLICY. They may even call to check your coverage limits....then maybe if you pass with flying colors you will get to take it for a spin...if not you will need to jump through more hoops.

In my gun shop you are not playing with my $3K firearms either....sorry man. It just makes sense. You want to hand over a non-refundable "playing" fee..ok. Either that or you will need to be a very regular customer who I trust and know.

Racking the slide and dry firing is going to scratch a 1911?

We're talking a $3k gun and a $250k+ car? Good comparison.

I guess it's better to have the $3k gun sit and look nice than to sell it to someone who has cash in hand.

[g60racer]

Squarely on the side of the OP here.

With the car analogy, I can sympathize. Twice I have gone to test drive a rather rare performance car with the intent of buying it - and been turned away by a dealership who pulled the "buy it then you can test drive it all you want" crap on me. Guess what? I bought the car from the dealer that let me drive it. Even involved going to a different city, due to the rarity of the car. But I drove it, was satisfied, and took it home. Then I promptly pulled a "pretty woman" and drove it by the dealer that wouldn't let me test drive it, to show their sales manager the deal he lost by his salespeople being uptight. (yes, that was prickish of me - but I couldn't help myself)

Firearms have very distinct feels to them, and anyone who has fired similar models of different manufacture knows this to be true. I'd never buy one I hadn't handled and disassembled to check for flaws, let alone one I hadn't fired to see how it felt. Any gun store that refused to allow me to examine the merchandise is not getting my hard earned money.