Another idiot at the range

[milsurpshooter]

its all good just giving them the oppertunity speak to me somewhat face to face. but i'm done. sounds like they are too. dont worry be happy -big mouth billy bass.

[metalhead357]

dont worry be happy -big mouth billy bass.

Nah...I'm just bass akwards

party on gents

[milsurpshooter]

i agree they have minimum standards i know a few people that fit that bill. but timing is everything isn't it.

[milsurpshooter]

anyways i dont need anymore crap from the mods so we're through.

[slick_711]

I'm going to keep this nice and short because a number of the things I have to say on a number of the topics brought up in this thread would get me into trouble with the moderators.

1) People who do not maintain muzzle awareness are new to guns AND/OR unsafe and unintelligent. Regain your safety, take control of the situation, and then determine whether they are A or B. If A, be stern but clear and teach them the 4 rules of firearms safety. You will be doing all parties a favor. If B, be even more stern, and ask them to stop shooting for the day and seriously think about firearms safety before they shoot again. Inform a range officer is one is present. Then, by all means come here and bitch about it. However, don't come here and bitch about it after having left the offender there to do it again to someone else the next time they shoot; perhaps with an even worse outcome.

2) Yes, there are some guys in the USAF that can't shoot. There are some guys in the USAF that are not weapons savvy. There are also a number of guys in the USAF that have and are continuing to risk their lives quite literally beside the other branches of the military. I myself am prior-E from the AF and was Security Forces (MP). I knew some guys who were poorly trained. The AF has F-22s to buy, and ammo/training for MPs is apparently expensive. I don't agree with that, but it was beyond my control. However, there are plenty of guys in the USAF that can shoot and are damn good with their weapons. I have on more than one occasion shot better than Marine & Army riflemen.

Furthermore, small arms training is not the USAF mission, it is the USMC & USA mission. The 33rd & 37th Fighter wings were what ended Op Desert Storm so quickly, the USMC & USA were just there to (do a very good job of) sweeping up. (Oh snap, you Marines & Soldiers don't like to hear that huh? Now perhaps you understand my irritation). What ever happened to mutual respect among branches? I've personally spent time (training, not combat) with the 48th RS @ Davis-Monthan & 23rd STS @ Hurlburt and unless you've hopped out of the back of a -53J into combat to save the lives of members of every branch of the US military, I think you should all bite your tongues before you speak so poorly about the AF.

That's the end of my rambling and ranting. My apologies for the tangent, and anyone who disagrees can explain to me the grounds on which they feel they are qualified enough for me to care what they may have to say on the subject. I'm pretty sure the first two letters of the name tape on the left breast of the BDUs buried in the back of my closet is the same as yours.

[milsurpshooter]

i've been there and watched these guys shoot. alot of them are responsible gun owners and shooters. i will agree with you there however the range in question does not have a safty instructor and anybody that pays the cash is a member. so there lays the problem there a few hot shots that screw everything up for every one else. there are a few guys that thought it was a good idea to shoot steel targets with jacketed ammo from 5-10 yards away and guess what wam they got hit by riochets and no more steel targets for anyone.

[586L-Frame]

What happened to the "Rangemaster"?

[milsurpshooter]

dunno a lot of ranges just dont have'em anymore

[jdberger]

What happened to the "Rangemaster"?

Hospital...ND

[Rck'n'ROll]

Furthermore, small arms training is not the USAF mission, it is the USMC & USA mission. The 33rd & 37th Fighter wings were what ended Op Desert Storm so quickly, the USMC & USA were just there to (do a very good job of) sweeping up. (Oh snap, you Marines & Soldiers don't like to hear that huh?

LMAO!!

Now perhaps you understand my irritation). What ever happened to mutual respect among branches? I've personally spent time (training, not combat) with the 48th RS @ Davis-Monthan & 23rd STS @ Hurlburt and unless you've hopped out of the back of a -53J into combat to save the lives of members of every branch of the US military, I think you should all bite your tongues before you speak so poorly about the AF.

Hey, I never said we did not need fighter jocks and B 52 pilots. They do a great job, most the time!! I won't even get into all the AF friendly fire incidents in the first and second Desert war's. I am not saying that the other services did not have their own incidents. But there is a reason why Marine pilots are allowed to where camouflage helmets!

And what is this mutual respect among services you speak of? There has always been $ITE talking among the US. Navy, Marines, Army, Coast Guard, and the Air force... Don't know where you served, but I served on three different joint service bases in my career and trust me there are allot of ***** talking. Especially when it comes to being a squared away service member, and how the the other services don't stack up to the one you are in. Example, how the other services don't iron their uniforms and look like a bag of smashed *****HOLES when walking around the base or in the public eye. I saw this Army specialist the other day in his camy uniform at my school, I pulled him aside and asked him, "Why his uniform looked like ***". He responded with a shocked face and asked, Who I was" (I now have bleached blond hair) . I told him that, "I served in the Marines and he should have ironed out his uniform the night prior, and that the people at school might interpret the Army as being sloppy or undisciplined because they have seen him in a sloppy uniform". He then gave me an excuses on why his uniform looked so bad and agreed with what I had said. I then told him, "You never know who you will run into off of base, so you should always be prepared". After that I shook his hand and thanked him for his service and bull****ed with him for awhile before I had my next class.

If you take offence to what i have said, i am sorry. But you are talking to a Devil Dog, and you should know that it has been ingrained into the Marine Corps Culture that we are a step above the other services.

[Rck'n'ROll]

Furthermore, small arms training is not the USAF mission, it is the USMC & USA mission. The 33rd & 37th Fighter wings were what ended Op Desert Storm so quickly, the USMC & USA were just there to (do a very good job of) sweeping up. (Oh snap, you Marines & Soldiers don't like to hear that huh?

LMAO!!

Now perhaps you understand my irritation). What ever happened to mutual respect among branches? I've personally spent time (training, not combat) with the 48th RS @ Davis-Monthan & 23rd STS @ Hurlburt and unless you've hopped out of the back of a -53J into combat to save the lives of members of every branch of the US military, I think you should all bite your tongues before you speak so poorly about the AF.

Hey, I never said we did not need fighter jocks and B 52 pilots. They do a great job, most the time!! I won't even get into all the AF friendly fire incidents in the first and second Desert war's. I am not saying that the other services did not have their own incidents. But there is a reason why Marine pilots are allowed to where camouflage helmets!

And what is this mutual respect among services you speak of? There has always been $ITE talking among the US. Navy, Marines, Army, Coast Guard, and the Air force... Don't know where you served, but I served on three different joint service bases in my career and trust me there are allot of ***** talking. Especially when it comes to being a squared away service member, and how the the other services don't stack up to the one you are in. Example, how the other services don't iron their uniforms and look like a bag of smashed *****HOLES when walking around the base or in the public eye. I saw this Army specialist the other day in his camy uniform at my school, I pulled him aside and asked him, "Why his uniform looked like ***". He responded with a shocked face and asked, Who I was" (I now have bleached blond hair) . I told him that, "I served in the Marines and he should have ironed out his uniform the night prior, and that the people at school might interpret the Army as being sloppy or undisciplined because they have seen him in a sloppy uniform". He then gave me an excuses on why his uniform looked so bad and agreed with what I had said. I then told him, "You never know who you will run into off of base, so you should always be prepared". After that I shook his hand and thanked him for his service and bull****ed with him for awhile before I had my next class.

If you take offence to what i have said, i am sorry. But you are talking to a Devil Dog, and you should know that it has been ingrained into the Marine Corps Culture that we are a step above the other services.

Darn it, I screwed up the quote option, stupid Jar Head.

[jc_stecker]

Unfortunately I don't belive AF personnel get enough firearms training, but they know enough to be dangerous. Although this doesn't mean everyone in the AF is a total moron with a gun. After all, all my shooting bud's are AD military.

+1 lol
Reminds of this one time when I went on a det. to Osan Air Base. Me and a couple buddies just got done eating chow and were headed back to the Turimi Lodge when we were stopped by some E-7 in some kind of Security gig. She (what other AF personnel would casually approach a Marine) was carrying a M4 and offered to give us a ride back to the inn. When we got to her truck she swung the M4 of her shoulder like a purse, flagging everybody, and stuck it in the side door compartment. Needless to say me and my two other buddies all hit the deck, and one of them jumped into the bed of the truck! Shortly afterwards we got up to find all the AF guys staring at us like we were crazy or something. Great times, great times.

[slick_711]

Meh, I was partly trying to stir up sh** by overreacting. I did & do believe in a "mutual respect" between branches though, if that's naive fine. I did plenty of sh** talking, and still do with a lot of the mil guys that come by my work. But in my case at least it was always just that, talk, I've always maintained a fairly steady respect for anyone in uniform. But then, I don't need to clarify myself to a jarhead and a bunch of squids.

[eckerph]

If you take offence to what i have said, i am sorry. But you are talking to a Devil Dog, and you should know that it has been ingrained into the Marine Corps Culture that we are a step above the other services.

Yet weren't you guys the first to have wash and wear uniforms? and sued boot's that don't have to be polished?
I kid! I kid! I cant wait until my wife gets the new ABU, no more starch no more iron and no more polishing boots.

[eckerph]

1) People who do not maintain muzzle awareness are new to guns AND/OR unsafe and unintelligent. Regain your safety, take control of the situation, and then determine whether they are A or B. If A, be stern but clear and teach them the 4 rules of firearms safety. You will be doing all parties a favor. If B, be even more stern, and ask them to stop shooting for the day and seriously think about firearms safety before they shoot again. Inform a range officer is one is present. Then, by all means come here and bitch about it. However, don't come here and bitch about it after having left the offender there to do it again to someone else the next time they shoot; perhaps with an even worse outcome.

My friend i have had to have discussions with allot of people at the range, and it has been nothing but attitude with people. "I qualify with the M-16" or " I'm security forces" are the responses i get and i have had issues with people from several branches of the military so it isn't only an AF problem. I do not let people do as they please when it comes to my safety and have no trouble telling (or yelling) at people too not touch there guns during cease fire and keep their muzzle downrange, I'm not a babysitter or the clubs rangmaster nor do i want to be. As soon as that guy turned around and had his pistol pointed at me i immediately told him to point it downrange, I'm not going to let anyone point a gun at me and do nothing. I watch people around me when i shoot because i don't trust anyone.