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LPVO. I have an Elcan SpectreDR and it’s overrated. Wish I’d have grabbed a nightforce ATACR, VCOG, or TANGO6T.
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>> For a used 1/4 Gen3, I think ~$1400 is a good starting point.
>> New retail is currently $1800. I think $1600 retail would be a buy if they price that low.
>> I concede there are superior optics than the SpecterDR out there (Magnification range, eye relief, optical quality, price point and more).
>> I believe the Elcan SpecterDR is still viable even today. It is a durable and proven optic. However, it is a jack-of-all trades but master of none.
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I wonder why anyone would say the Strike Eagle is better than the PST II in any category?
I have a Strike Eagle and a PSTII 1-6... not even close. The Strike Eagle is on par with a PA 1-6 (the budget one)
I also have a Trihawk which is a surprisingly nice optic, but heavy IMHO.
What does a ACOG weigh?Comment
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Boys, boys, boys......
Really? Army this, Elcan that, ACOGs... Wow. Think about this logically. SHTF, what are you trying to do? Protect you and your ****. Now, if you are joining your local mullisha, that's a whole nuther deerectshun to go. But we are talking about cities burning and crooks looting, not starting a war. Anyone who thinks they are taking shots over 100 meters is fooling themselves. that LPVO isn't going to do anything for you the red dot won't. It's overkill, way over. Doors getting kicked in, bad guys busting up the driveway. Fact is, most shootings occur under 20 feet. You can argue with the FBI on that one, not me.
But, good on ya if that's what you think you need. But I stand firm that in a SHTF, all you need is a red dot. Funny fact though, I have a PA Slx 1-6 LPVO and an Arrowhead 1-8 sitting on the desk next to me. I'm not opposed to them. Just this situation calls for simplicity to keep your *** alive, not go zombie hunting in the streets.Comment
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You don't need any sites on your gun.
"Just fired two blasts in the air" (to scare away your adversary)
-Biden
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In a shtf situation I’m not engaging at all if I can help it. I’m moving extremely slow and generally backing out of anything that seems “off”. I want to be able to sit and scan before I move. Hole up and hideout. If you’re shooting at 20’ you already screwed up.
I understand the guys with military experience needing less magnification but they are used to moving forwards in number. Solo defense is about hiding and not being seen. Slow and steady for me. Where I live it’s wide open views. I want to be able to identify a face or weapon at 400 yards, not make torso hits on something I’m not sure about.Comment
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If you want to confidently identify a face (friend or foe) at 400 yd... 1-6 LPVO ain't gonna cut it.Comment
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Pfft. Ive competed with a red dot and an LVPO. Hands down, over 50 yards, under time pressure, LVPO wins. SHTF, Im shooting down streets and roadways. Im not waiting for bad guys to come up close. Ef dat.
Recent field situations have also shown that long distance fighting is now the norm in urban environments. Syria, Iraq, the Philippines, terrorists and militia have been using battle rifles to keep their distances and their opponents pinned down.
The standard M22 binoculars weigh 2.7 pounds, have seven power magnifications, and are bulky and cumbersome. They are not ergonomically suited to operating in urban combat.
“Instead of binoculars, infantry soldiers routinely use their rifle scopes to magnify distant objects. The scopes are mostly the Advanced Combat Optical Gun (ACOG) sight or its replacement. the M150 Rifle Combat Optic (RCO), which weighs 16.2 ounces and provides 4x magnification. They’re light, but more importantly, the scopes are readily available; an infantry platoon has multiple ACOGs/RCOs in each squad. To get a magnified view of their surroundings soldiers point their weapon at what they want to see, including civilians and in some cases, other soldiers.”
You wanna limit yourself to a red dot, cool.Comment
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Y
Uhm, you will see if the other party is armed, to what extent, monitor activity, deduce intent, and ID to a point, at a greater distance that with a red dot or the naked eye. Ive used 6x binos to spot to glass. Works very well.
The optic is not a dating app to make a connection. Making out fine detail such as facial recognition is not what its for.Last edited by MarikinaMan; 10-22-2021, 2:19 PM.Comment
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I like binos but they don’t work for crack shots. You want to be looking through the scope already when your target finally gives you a good shot.
Solo shtf is very different from modern warfare and much closer to hunting. Glass, stalk, identity target, one clean shot if absolutely necessary. If you are getting any crazier than that you’re not going to be around long.
And yeah a 1-6 is plenty at 400 yards to make id. I’ve spent hundreds of hours slinking around with a lvpo while hunting and use them frequently to identify game size and gender at 400 plus yards. If I can see a pigs weenie at 400 yards I can also tell the difference between a cell phone and a pistol at that range.
I passed on a 300 yard shot the other day with a red dot because I just didn’t have a clean shot at a slow moving coyote. Between adrenaline, being gassed from hiking and a smaller target the dot wasn’t enough accuracy to make sure I had a perfect shot. 300 yards with a dot is easy from a bench but get out in bright daylight on a side hill and try making those kind of shots. It’s a hell of a lot easier on the gong at the range that doesn’t move and is always directly facing you. Real life targets rarely give you clean shots. They use cover and if you’re lucky you might see half a face peeking around a corner.
Pig hunting is a perfect real world practice for these kind of optics. My shots are on moving targets from 10 feet to 300 yards. I’d love to use nothing but irons or a lightweight dot. But there is a difference between hitting a target and cleanly dropping it. The magnification on the lvpo makes it worth carrying and having an etched reticle is key in bright daylight. I run my lvpo with the illumination off most of the time for a better, crisper view. With a red dot/irons you center and shoot, with a lvpo I pick the exact spot the bullet needs to go.Last edited by deckhandmike; 10-22-2021, 2:49 PM.Comment
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Let Go of the Status Quo!
Don't worry, it will never pass...How in the hell did that pass?
Think past your gun, it's the last resort, the first is your brain.
Defense is a losing proposition when time is on the side of the opponent. In the history of humanity, no defense has ever won against an enemy with time on their side.Comment
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