OC Armory needs our help

[OCEquestrian]

I hear they are great for transferring/receiving traditional non controversial firearms and doing SSEs.
I tried to get them to do an FFL transfer on a Chinese (NORINCO) SKS with a spiker bayonet about 7 years ago. They wouldn't do it because they thought any NORINCO rifle was a named assault rifle in Cali. I showed them that it was an SKS. It didn't matter.. Maybe they were having issues with Cali DOJ at the time? FUD? Don't know but Turners was the same way with NORINCO SKSs. These were NOT illegal 7 years ago. Even if the bayonet was attached. They were only federally banned if imported attached at the very end of the Chinese importation ban.

Two FFL's tell you you are wrong and here you are anyway. BTW.. there is NO requirement that an FFL do any transaction they thinks "may" be illegal. Why risk your license for less than $50 for some stranger....

So who did your FFL transfer? I KNOW that Mike is far more knowledgeable than the vast majority of FFL;"s out there on BATF regulations, policies AND oh yeah.. also the LAW.

Just a little research came up with this...

If I recall correctly, it has to do with the China import ban on newly made military (non-sporting arms) under the previous president. The same ban affected steel jacketed ammo from China and Russia. SKS rilfe without a bayonet were deemed "sporting arms" and were ok. I think the Russian an other makes of SKS's rifles escaped the issue due to their C&R status. -

"Here is what happened... and it really is ridiculous!
When Norinco submitted their SKS for importation to the ATF, they originaly submitted it without the bayonet, as it was not a "sporting feature". They then proceeded to import the entire line with bayonet attached. During the Assault Weapon hysteria of the Bush Sr. Clinton years, someone at ATF remembered this fact and passed down a memo to FFL's that this was indeed an "illegal, non-sporting feature". All the others get around it by being a) a Curio & Relic (Russian Albainian and Yugo) or b) having been submitted with bayonet attached (Romanian). Since Norinco is no longer allowed to import, it's a bit of a moot point."

[Dan_Eastvale]

Two FFL's tell you you are wrong and here you are anyway. BTW.. there is NO requirement that an FFL do any transaction they thinks "may" be illegal. Why risk your license for less than $50 for some stranger....

So who did your FFL transfer? I KNOW that Mike is far more knowledgeable than the vast majority of FFL;"s out there on BATF regulations, policies AND oh yeah.. also the LAW.

Those two FFLs were wrong.
NORINCO SKSs with a standard 10 round attached mag are not illegal in California.
It doesn't matter how many tell me they're banned..
I knew what's on the Roberti Roos list and those are not on it.
Nor are they on any BATF list.

[OCEquestrian]

Those two FFLs were wrong.
NORINCO SKSs with a standard 10 round attached mag are not illegal in California.
It doesn't matter how many tell I'm they're banned..
I knew what's on the Roberti Roos list and those are not on it.
Nor are they on any BATF list.

The bayonet was the problem.. read edited comment above. So who did you find to do the FFL transfer?

[Dan_Eastvale]

The bayonet was the problem.. read edited comment above. So who did the FFL transfer?

Again, an attached spiked bayonet is NOT illegal on any Norinco SKS.
I have no issue with OC Armory. It's ok for an FFL to be afraid to touch anything Norinco. But they shouldn't claim that something's illegal when it isn't.
They should say that they don't want the hassle of looking it up.

[OCEquestrian]

Again, an attached spiked bayonet is NOT illegal on any Norinco SKS.
I have no issue with OC Armory. It's ok for an FFL to be afraid to touch anything Norinco. But they shouldn't claim that something's illegal when it isn't.
They should say that they don't want the hassle of looking it up.

So for the THIRD time.. who knew the law then and did the transfer for you?

[Win231]

This is the case for many Californians who have been in the hobby for a while. With the Handgun Roster and the Assault Weapons Ban, the choices of interesting guns is severely restricted. The ammo ban restricts your choice in guns further if you have not stocked up on that particular caliber/chambering.

Which is exactly why blaming gun owners for being "cheap" is foolish. Those who blame gun owners have reality issues.

[I Swan]

I know shops that have made things up to avoid doing a PPT in this case I don't think that was the case. Every shop has their own little quirks and interpretations and comfort level.

OC Armory is the only gun shop I know that when doing a PPT makes you sign a statement that you are not one of the 2nd tier cops trying to illegally flip an off roster handgun acquired through their exemption from roster.

I know a shop that is under the impression that a CA FFL can't use the USPS to mail a handgun. Same shop thought Black Talon ammo was illegal in CA I believe that is only the case in San Francisco.

[Dan_Eastvale]

So for the THIRD time.. who knew the law then and did the transfer for you?

Doesn't really matter as I knew the law for SKSs in California at that time.. It's not a he said/she said scenario.

Was Ghostworks, a Chino Hills FFL at that time.

[OCEquestrian]

Doesn't really matter as I knew the law for SKSs in California at that time.. It's not a he said/she said scenario.

Was Ghostworks, a Chino Hills FFL at that time.

And they did the transfer with the gun in the exact configuration it was in when OC Armory and Tuners declined? Bayonet was not removed? Just curious...a little internet searching has revealed a very confusing situation with regard to the Chinese SKS. It appears all the Euro SKS's were old enough to avoid all this crap by qualifying under the C&R rules. I seem to remember some issue with it all back in the day but I bought a 1950's mfg Russian one with a blade bayonet and thought all the hoopla was over the spiked bayonet design of the chinese SKS's but it clearly was much more complicated than that.

FWIW, I found Mike to be pro RTKBA and very attuned to the minutiae of the law and would take you right to the limit of the letter of the law but not one millimeter beyond. Tuners.....the had to dumb down all their transactions to fit into simple policies that store clerks could understand and follow so I get why they said no...

[I Swan]

A LOT of gun shop owners I know (okay 2 of them) voted for Hillary for this very reason.

Panics and Democrats sell guns. Obama was the greatest gun salesman in history....

Oh please name these two FFL's.

[DFence]

I know shops that have made things up to avoid doing a PPT in this case I don't think that was the case. Every shop has their own little quirks and interpretations and comfort level.

OC Armory is the only gun shop I know that when doing a PPT makes you sign a statement that you are not one of the 2nd tier cops trying to illegally flip an off roster handgun acquired through their exemption from roster.

I know a shop that is under the impression that a CA FFL can't use the USPS to mail a handgun. Same shop thought Black Talon ammo was illegal in CA I believe that is only the case in San Francisco.

Pretty sure this is what they were referring to regarding USPS: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...postal-service

Maybe just a misunderstanding?




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[Dan_Eastvale]

And they did the transfer with the gun in the exact configuration it was in when OC Armory and Tuners declined? Bayonet was not removed? Just curious...a little internet searching has revealed a very confusing situation with regard to the Chinese SKS. It appears all the Euro SKS's were old enough to avoid all this crap by qualifying under the C&R rules. I seem to remember some issue with it all back in the day but I bought a 1950's mfg Russian one with a blade bayonet and thought all the hoopla was over the spiked bayonet design of the chinese SKS's but it clearly was much more complicated than that.

FWIW, I found Mike to be pro RTKBA and very attuned to the minutiae of the law and would take you right to the limit of the letter of the law but not one millimeter beyond. Tuners.....the had to dumb down all their transactions to fit into simple policies that store clerks could understand and follow so I get why they said no...

The Norinco spiked issue was a brief federal BATF whoop ti do in early 90's when ALL Chinese gun imports were forever banned. All ended after the ban. AFTER that there has NEVER been any banning of attached spiked bayonets in either Cali or the US. You can attach a spiked bayo to any Norinco SKS in Cali. The only SKS banned in Cali is a NORINCO made for AK mags. Most newer NORINCO SKSs owned in Cali (by many Cal Gunners) are spiked...including their "paratrooper" version... Since bladed variants occurred on earlier serial numbers only..

[Xanthippus]

The Norinco spiked issue was a brief federal BATF whoop ti do in early 90's when ALL Chinese gun imports were forever banned. All ended after the ban. AFTER that there has NEVER been any banning of attached spiked bayonets in either Cali or the US. You can attach a spiked bayo to any Norinco SKS in Cali. The only SKS banned in Cali is a NORINCO made for AK mags. Most newer NORINCO SKSs owned in Cali (by many Cal Gunners) are spiked...including their "paratrooper" version... Since bladed variants occurred on earlier serial numbers only..

^
He is correct.

[Capt Jack]

I am up in northern SLO County and we have had several LGSs close this last year, it is truly sad to see the state trying to willfully kill businesses. I sometimes really hate living here because we are totally powerless to stop the Dems and the CA repubs are pretty much RINOs. It is only going to get worse unless something happens at the Federal level to stop this anti-2A crap.

[Yodaman]

Sorry to hear business is down. Hope they can adapt and stay open


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