PPT Transfer Fee Overcharge

[Fishslayer]

NICE! I figured it was a Calgunner!

Huh... looks like it's gone. Just call the DOJ...

[KrisDSA]

Isn't this the 3rd time someone has posted this about them. Make a sticky to boycott them

[KrisDSA]

And isn't there more then one FFL with that name

[sfe187]

can't find the FB post, did they deleted?

[SLO1911Fan]

And isn't there more then one FFL with that name

Rangemaster Santa Maria had to change their name I believe.

I'm extremely disappointed that RangeMaster SLO has become that kind of chicken **** operation. I used to be in there at least 1-2 times a week for years.

[Exiledviking]

I called up the FAQ on the Attorney General's website on my phone. Told the guy it says right here with a reference to the actual legal code on what they're allowed to charge.

The response was: "It's $50. If you want to go somewhere else you can."

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I dealt with those clowns in SLO earlier this year for the same issue. They did not budge. Can't wait to see how this plays out.

[AdidasCJ]

Huh... looks like it's gone. Just call the DOJ...

They deleted it. HOWEVER, I got a screen shot of my interaction. I forgot to grab when you commented tho.

https://goo.gl/photos/v6eLi1C286ny8hbk6

[zapatito92]

I would definitely not go back to that ffl if I was you

[one9kilo]

The total state fee is $25. The DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a $1.00 Firearms Safety Act Fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement Fee. In the event of a private party transfer (PPT), the firearms dealer may charge an additional fee of up to $10 per firearm.

If the transaction is not a PPT the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is not misrepresented as a state fee.

Range Master Tactical Gear
Range Master Tactical Gear Hi Chris, The dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is not misrepresented as a state fee.

From their interaction it looks like they are treating the OP's PPT as a non-PPT, which like everyone else is pointing out, is illegal.

I'm nterested in seeing what happens next.

[Desertdoc]

Yep, that FFL is clownshoes. Please, just for me, so it will stay on the internet for ever, please post the business name, address, phone number, web address, owners name and staff names, one last time. Thanks.

[The Gleam]

I keep on reading it's against the law to charge over $35 for PPT. Apparently it is not since there are many FFL charging over $35. I understand the frustration and principles but instead of complaining, just take your money to another FFL of your choosing. That's what I did. Just shop around. The increase PPT may be due to the end of the year and with tons of PPT, FFL probably wants to maximize their profit.

Do you think any FFL is going to let you pick up your gun on the 8th day, and let that slide?

Do you think any FFL is going to give you a pass on charging only $25? (They are not REQUIRED to charge the $10.00).

Do you think any FFL is going to forego you putting your thumbprint on the DROS form?

Do you think any FFL is going to let you DROS without a valid FSC (or active HSC if only buying a handgun).

So no; nobody should let this slide when it's the LAW, because none of us surely would ever get the benefit of the FFL letting some little law of academia slide about buying firearms - in reverse.

They have you as a captive customer as it is; you MUST go to an FFL to do the PPT, on just about ALL guns now - plus there has never been a time where I did a PPT that I didn't also buy: ammo, another gun from the FFL's inventory, supplies, holsters, magazines, parts, whatever.

Do it right, or don't do it at all.

[The Gleam]

I had to double-check the date of your post to be sure it wasn't 12-07-2003 or so, because that's about the last hold-out date when most FFL's got wise to charging anything more than $35 would have consequences.

If they are charging that now, they KNOW it's neither right, nor legal. this is no longer an unknown territory. It's been discussed so many times here, with bulletins by the BOF/DOJ, consumers, other websites, and more.

See link: EXACTLY what I was talking about. This bulletin from the CA DOJ (Lockyer) citing what FF's could charge for PPT's was dated 3/26/2001. It is directly from the DOJ/BOF website of bulletins. It took a couple of years to catch on, but there is NO excuse for any FFL to not abide by it now:

Entitled: REQUIREMENT FOR DEALERS TO CONDUCT PRIVATE PARTY TRANSFERS / ALLOWABLE FEES .

Note the "REQUIREMENT" and "ALLOWABLE FEES" parts. Note number 2 is an exception that does not apply here. Parts in bold are my emphasis - with good reason. The ACTUAL PDF of the document can be found at the link below.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...buls/0101.pdf?

REQUIREMENT FOR DEALERS TO CONDUCT PRIVATE PARTY TRANSFERS / ALLOWABLE FEES

This Information Bulletin is intended to remind dealers of their obligations regarding private party transfers including the 10-day waiting period and the fees that firearms dealers are permitted by law to charge when conducting these transfers. Firearms dealers are required to conduct private party transfers pursuant to Penal Code section 12071(b)(5). Dealers may not limit the days or hours in which private party transfers are conducted.

The allowable fees are limited by statute. Pursuant to Penal Code section 12082, the fees that can be charged are as follows:

1. The private party purchaser or transferee, or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the firearms dealer to pay a fee not to exceed $10.00 per firearm, and the applicable Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) fee that the DOJ may charge pursuant to Penal Code section 12076. The DROS fee is currently $14.00 and the Safety fee is currently $1.00, a total of $15.00.

2. Subsequent to the end of the 10-day waiting period or one business day following the notification of the purchaser that his/her DROS has been released from a DOJ required “hold”, the dealer may charge a storage fee. However, such fees must be clearly posted and may not be misrepresented as any governmental fee.

3. Private party transfers of multiple handguns at the same time are handled as follows:

• A separate DROS must be completed for each handgun.
• The DROS/Safety fee for the first handgun is a total of $15.00.
• The DROS/Safety fee for each additional handgun is $11.00.
• The dealer may charge the buyer or transferee, or person being loaned the firearm a fee not to exceed $10.00 per firearm, for the processing of the private party transfer.

4. A single DROS shall be completed for any number of long gun transfers that are processed at the same time. The DROS/Safety fee for the transaction is a total of $15.00 and the dealer may charge the purchaser or transferee, or person being loaned the firearm a fee not to exceed $10.00 per firearm, for the processing of the private party transfer.

5. In a private party transfer involving a combination of handguns and long guns, a separate DROS will be required for each handgun and a single DROS will be required for any number of long guns. The DROS/Safety fees will be $15.00 for the first handgun DROS and $15.00 for the long gun DROS. There is no discount for the processing of a combination of handgun and long gun DROS. Fees other than the DROS/Safety fee charged by the firearms dealer for sales from their own inventory or consignment sales are not addressed in the law. However, any additional fees charged by the dealer must be clearly posted and the dealer shall not misstate the amount of fees charged by a governmental agency.

Firearms dealers that violate these laws may be subject to civil or criminal penalties and/or required to pay restitution to parties that have been overcharged.

If you have any questions regarding this Information Bulletin, please visit the Firearms Division web site at http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/ or call the Firearms Division at (916) 227-3703.

Sincerely,
RANDY ROSSI, Director
Firearms Division

For BILL LOCKYER
Attorney General

Keep in mind that certain aspects about DROS on Long Guns and combining Handguns on a DROS with long-guns have been revised in the past couple of years, but the REQUIREMENT aspect and ALLOWABLE FEES - HAS NOT CHANGED.

They MUST return the difference they overcharged to you. It's required by law.

[ambiguous216]

I would of ran out of there and I'm pretty sure the seller would have understood. PPT is pretty simple...flat fee of $35. If they want to charge more they can pound sand.

Did my first PPT today with a fellow Calgunner and got myself a very nice AK. Got to the local FFL to do the paperwork and was informed the cost was $50, $25 for the DROS and $25 for their fee. I commented that I thought the max they were allowed to charge was $35. The response was that we could go somewhere else, but anyone else would charge the same. I looked up the FAQ on the Cal AG's website and there in black and white: $25 for DROS and $10 for fee.

Again the response was we could go somewhere else.

Thing is, just an hour earlier I'd been at another FFL about 35 minutes away to get a lower out of jail and posted on the wall was: "$35 for PPT."

I didn't want to take up the seller's time driving around to another FFL, but this isn't sitting well with me.

Has anyone had experience reporting stuff like that to the Attorney General's office? I paid with a credit card. Has anyone been successful getting a partial charge back on things like this? I want to pay what I'm legally required to, and I'm probably getting a little too worked P over $15, but this is ticking me off.

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[sfe187]

i read the screen shot and i have more hate for rangemaster slo. its a ppt transfer and not any other type of transfer! if thats the case, why are NO OTHER FFLs out there charging more than $35????????? i wonder how much money they've been ripping off in total on this. someone needs to file a class-action lawsuit or something! fu_kin despicable.

[djflash]

The important question is how long have they been doing this illegal practice? If it's been going on for years then there could be thousands of "victims" and if they've been knowingly doing this then I think it becomes a conspiracy to commit fraud. Sound like a free upgraded to a felony charge.