How would they know?

[Ki6vsm]

The cops do not have to listen to your explanation. They may just take the firearm and let the DA decide to press charges or not. Either way you have to petition to get your firearm back provided it's legal and you'll want the contact with law enforcement expunged from your rap sheet.(Calguns foundation already had to do this for a citizen over a shotgun unloaded in a case taken at a traffic stop) See how well your second and forth amendment rights are protected under the new world order.

Most firearms violations by law abiding citizens are by happenstance.

My question was just directed at the author of the post I'd quoted, UP2MTNS. I was looking for further explanation of what he meant. That's all.

[UP2MTNS]

I'm not sure of your meaning. Do you mean WRONGFULLY arrested because their weapons were registered but they had some difficulty providing proof? Or the cops didn't want to listen to their explanation?

well, initially I meant people that were illegally using hi cap mags, or people with non-compliant weapons (whether intentional or accidental). But it would be interesting to know about wrongful arrests as well.


I think the OP's question is a good one. I think it important to know 1) what's legal, 2) what's illegal, but also 3) How are the laws enforced and what's proper/improper procedure. Which is how I'm interpreting his original question.

i.e. During a traffic stop, most of us know its not only our right to refuse a search, but its also improper for a police officer to search w/o cause and w/o permission.

BUT, at a range, I have no idea what's proper or improper in regards to an officer coming up to me and asking to inspect my weapon or if I need to show proof of X, Y or Z.
[EDIT]..got it, don't have to show proof, but tell that to an overzelous cop at a public range....



I'm also not considering the outliers.....like someone turns you in for some reason, your buddy has a big mouth, etc, that's just bad luck or not the kind of arrest info I'm interested in....I'd be very interested to know how, in general, the current gun laws (mostly the magazine and AW restrictions) are being enforced if people who are not complaint (Again, either on purpose or they just don't know) are being regularly found (how?) and charged (outcome?).


Anecdotally I'd say they're not....can't remember ever hearing about some guy that randomly got busted for not having a bullet button or was using his Dad's old 30 round magazine. Even JohnnyLightning's first example...the cop didn't even inspect the guns. (but I'm not on here super regularly or hang out all day at ranges, so maybe I'm just not in that loop)

[EDIT] Just read Blade Gunner's anecdotal incident above, but that would fall under 'wrongful' arrest (sounds like).

[Scratch705]

There are so many ways to get caught.
#1 would be the first time your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, neighbor, etc. got mad at you, they would inform the local gestopo, and then the games would commence.
Years ago, a friends brother in law was talking to the guy next to him at traffic court and mentioned that my friend had "something". Turns out the guy was a off duty policeman. A few days later, a multi agency task force was knocking on my friends door. He had a choice of surrendering the weapon with no charges, or they would get a search warrant and charge him to the max.
As they left, they mentioned that he could thank his bil with the big mouth.
I doubt that you would have the choice my friend had.

so a lesson in keeping your mouth shut about yours or other people you may know potentially illegally configured weapons. even from spouses, family members and neighbors

got it.

[Junkie]

well, initially I meant people that were illegally using hi cap mags, or people with non-compliant weapons (whether intentional or accidental). But it would be interesting to know about wrongful arrests as well.


I think the OP's question is a good one. I think it important to know 1) what's legal, 2) what's illegal, but also 3) How are the laws enforced and what's proper/improper procedure. Which is how I'm interpreting his original question.

i.e. During a traffic stop, most of us know its not only our right to refuse a search, but its also improper for a police officer to search w/o cause.

BUT, at a range, I have no idea what's proper or improper in regards to an officer coming up to me and asking to inspect my weapon or if I need to show proof of X, Y or Z.
[EDIT]..got it, don't have to show proof, but tell that to an overzelous cop at a public range....



I'm also not considering the outliers.....like someone turns you in for some reason, your buddy has a big mouth, etc, that's just bad luck or not the kind of arrest info I'm interested in....I'd be very interested to know how, in general, the current gun laws (mostly the magazine and AW restrictions) are being enforced if people who are not complaint (Again, either on purpose or they just don't know) are being regularly found (how?) and charged (outcome?).


Anecdotally I'd say they're not....can't remember ever hearing about some guy that randomly got busted for not having a bullet button or was using his Dad's old 30 round magazine. Even JohnnyLightning's first example...the cop didn't even inspect the guns. (but I'm not on here super regularly or hang out all day at ranges, so maybe I'm just not in that loop)

[EDIT] Just read Blade Gunner's anecdotal incident above, but that would fall under 'wrongful' arrest (sounds like).

It's perfectly legal for a cop to search without cause. It's improper for them to search without cause or permission, but a LOT of people will let them search for no good reason, even when they have something illegal.

I suspect the #1 accidental AW manufacture is use of >10rd mags in BB'd guns, not sure I've heard about prosecution though.

[omega]

This whole thing is so silly, almost like it's a crime to own a firearm these days?

reminds me of a cat & mouse

gun owners are like the mouse and the police are like the cat

what a dumb thing to have to worry about? the 2nd ammendment was supposed to prevent this kind of infringment

[readysetgo]

Sauron, that's how.

[UP2MTNS]

It's perfectly legal for a cop to search without cause. It's improper for them to search without cause or permission, but a LOT of people will let them search for no good reason, even when they have something illegal.

Yes, corrected. But my question still stands...what constitutes 'probable cause' at a range?

[Truck286]

Lol... All this Guessing...
Nothing is in the Books Yet...
Misinformation is the Worst..
Wait for a 2017/Penal Code..and then the Amended Laws Mid Year..

[Ki6vsm]

I'm also not considering the outliers.....like someone turns you in for some reason, your buddy has a big mouth, etc, that's just bad luck or not the kind of arrest info I'm interested in....

Made me think of this story. Though it's clearly not what you are talking about, since in this situation, a COP was turned in by coworkers for mfring and possessing an illegal AW:

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/07/26/san-francisco-cop-arrested-for-manufacturing-possessing-assault-rifle/

[Junkie]

Yes, corrected. But my question still stands...what constitutes 'probable cause' at a range?

If they see you drop a mag without disassembly of the action, and you have any evil features, that's PC for an AW.

[UP2MTNS]

If they see you drop a mag without disassembly of the action, and you have any evil features, that's PC for an AW.

But if its a RAW, then its not illegal, and since a person doesn't have to carry any physical proof of registration, if a cop comes up and asks to inspect, do you have the right to refuse?

Do you lose any 4th amendment rights by registering an AW?

to Truck286...I'm not trying to guess at anything. I'm asking how things are today.

[ARDude]

Yes, corrected. But my question still stands...what constitutes 'probable cause' at a range?

A leo asks if your rifle is a RAW. He sees it has no bullet button, and has evil features. If you say "no", he's got you. If you say "yes" and he believes that you are giving him false statements, it allows him to investigate further.

Example would be you are too young to have registered the first time.

Now he can detain you for investigation, run you and the rifle.

If it comes back registered to you and you just look really young for your age, he would probably say "have a nice day".

[Junkie]

The law says no *unreasonable* searches or seizures. It wouldn't surprise me if a court decided that reading the information off your lower was reasonable... but IANAL.

If you encounter a cop who starts asking questions, put it down serial number down if you'd rather he not look at it. If it's serial number up, it's plain view.

[UP2MTNS]

thanks for the comments/insight guys.

[dustoff31]

Yea but my question is how would they enforce it? How would they know? Are people who register going to carry a special permit??? Like im not saying im going to do it just trying to make sense of this cloudy mess. Jesus christ i know if you get caught you would get the bent over and get the shaft what am asking is if anything has been said about how they will determine who owns AW and who doesnt. I highly doubt they will be running backround checks on everyperson they see with an AR so how will LEO enforce these new laws? Doesnt seem possible possible to determine whos registered and whos not unless they get a permit to carry around because if they dont then anybody can just take off a BB which to me seems to contradict these retarted laws

Well, yeah you do have a special permit so to speak. You get a letter from DOJ saying the specific firearms(s) are registered as AWs. As of now, you are not required to carry it around with you or your AW, but many do. I would imagine the legislators will fix that minor oversight soon.

The police can also check the computer database to see if you have anything registered to you. If there is nothing in your name in the database, but you have one in your hand, guess what?