SCAR 17s now going for 5000?

[Tere_Hanges]

You can cry supply and demand all you want. Like an arm chair economist. It still doesnt mean a SCAR17 is suddenly worth over $5000. Its not food or water or gasoline. There are other much more affordable options that will essentially get you from point A to point B. They are not the same, but they will fill same basic purpose. At $2500-$3000 the SCAR is worth every penny. I have no problems with Captalism, it isnt perfect but its the closest thing to perfection we have. And yes I understand macro economics as I have had to study it for a masters in business. I also studied marketing and accounting which impact price and value as well.

There are two basic concepts here: Price and Value. Most people are just focusing on price and saying "supply and demand" while ignoring value. And also ignoring the fact that some consumers are behaving irrationally, which distorts price.

I have absolutely no problem with people doing whatever they want with their money. They can burn it for all i care. BUT, Im still entitled to my opinion as we all are. And in my opinion, its just silly if not down right dumb.

[Mopar Guy]

The hot rifle of the year. Makes me think of Plains Trains and Autos.



Neal: Sir?... Sir?... Sir?

[runs to man]

Neal: Excuse me. I know this is your cab, but I'm desperately late for a plane, and I was wondering if I could appeal to your good nature and ask you to let me have it.

New York Lawyer: I don't have a good nature. Excuse me. Cabbie, come on.

Neal: I'll offer you 10 dollars for it.

New York Lawyer: [scoffs] Nuh!

Neal: Okay, 20! I'll give you 20 dollars.

New York Lawyer: I'll take 50.

Neal: [Neal pauses, then begins to take money out] All right.

New York Lawyer: Anyone who'd pay 50 dollars for a cab, would certainly pay 75.

Neal: Not necessarily...

[reluctantly agreeing]

Neal: All right. $75. You're a thief!

New York Lawyer: Close, I'm an attorney.

Neal: Have a happy holiday.

New York Lawyer: This'll help!

[heidad01]

If you were familiar with the situation regarding HK firearms in Germany. Germany is proud of HK and uses HK as their primary supplier, makes sense. So the HK G36 was/is one of their primary military weapons. But in 2015 a scandal made the news about problems with the HK G36. (SO if you don't know but want to know what was wrong with the G36, I'll let you practice your reading skills by letting you look it up for yourself.)

To make a long story a little shorter, Germany ordered replacement of the G36. A major embarrassment. And worse, HK said they might not be able to produce enough replacements quickly enough. SO, HK told the government that they might have to use rifles made by non-German non-HK companies in the interim. Including, god forbid, the M4!

Seeing that the German Special Forces are using some SCARs instead of HKs, is what blew me away because I understand how much pride the Germans have invested in HK. And how embarrassed they were with the G36 and the inability to produce replacements quickly enough.

Not all of us are as shallow as you are.

That is old story and everyone on Calgun read about it a long time ago, but how the heck is that any of your business when you are sitting in Riverside, Reseda, or anywhere in Calif using a bullet buttoned rifle shooting paper targets and having dreams of becoming a mall ninja or an operator? It is like the one in the picture ^^ shooting bad guys out a gun ship using his Scar without a magazine. But, he has good trigger discipline and very attractive to ninjas.

So, go grow up and come back when you have more than a dozen and a half rifles and twice as many hand guns. You may be more humble and less cocky by then.

You can cry supply and demand all you want. Like an arm chair economist. It still doesnt mean a SCAR17 is suddenly worth over $5000. Its not food or water or gasoline. There are other much more affordable options that will essentially get you from point A to point B. They are not the same, but they will fill same basic purpose. At $2500-$3000 the SCAR is worth every penny. I have no problems with Captalism, it isnt perfect but its the closest thing to perfection we have. And yes I understand macro economics as I have had to study it for a masters in business. I also studied marketing and accounting which impact price and value as well.

There are two basic concepts here: Price and Value. Most people are just focusing on price and saying "supply and demand" while ignoring value. And also ignoring the fact that some consumers are behaving irrationally, which distorts price.

I have absolutely no problem with people doing whatever they want with their money. They can burn it for all i care. BUT, Im still entitled to my opinion as we all are. And in my opinion, its just silly if not down right dumb.

You tell them sir. I give up.

[deadcoyote]

Two things:
A. The Navy SEAL retirement publication Ethos did a great write up on the SCAR 17 being issued for testing in Afghanistan, and it was really well liked. I don't own one, never even seen one, but it was a good write up and the SEALs seemed to love it.

B. If the guns are going for $5k, then that's the price. Not for me to judge. I bought a Saiga sporter in 7.62x39 for $399 years ago, during the last panic I put it up on consignment in a local gun shop for $975, thinking someone would offer me $700 or so. I only made it about 1.5 miles away from the shop in my truck before I got a call saying it sold. You could infer from this I could've gone even higher but I was happy with the sale. Some of my friends said I was a jerk doing such a thing, yet I now see the same rifles going for $1600. Not my business, if you don't think the SCAR is worth $5k, just don't buy it.

[M1A_KICHI]

quick question, is the m14 the current standard battle rifle for our designated marksmen? technology changes and with it, hardware. m14s are only in use because our fighting men wanted a heavier bullet than the 556 and havent largely received their new rifles, the scar-h, g28 and the hk417.

comparing any new tech to old tech is going to make the old tech look like a POS. what makes the m14 special to you is emotional attachment. if you were a realist, you would see it for what it is, a jam-prone and unwieldy rifle.

i love my m14s but would never take them over my scar17 in a combat situation.

Comparing the new tech to old tech just shows how the old tech set the standard that things are now compared against. If I had to take the M14 or the SCAR in combat I would pick the one I trained with the most and feel most comfortable with. For me this would be the M14 but others may be a PTR, FAL, AK or AR.

[M1A_KICHI]

Two things:
A. The Navy SEAL retirement publication Ethos did a great write up on the SCAR 17 being issued for testing in Afghanistan, and it was really well liked. I don't own one, never even seen one, but it was a good write up and the SEALs seemed to love it.

B. If the guns are going for $5k, then that's the price. Not for me to judge. I bought a Saiga sporter in 7.62x39 for $399 years ago, during the last panic I put it up on consignment in a local gun shop for $975, thinking someone would offer me $700 or so. I only made it about 1.5 miles away from the shop in my truck before I got a call saying it sold. You could infer from this I could've gone even higher but I was happy with the sale. Some of my friends said I was a jerk doing such a thing, yet I now see the same rifles going for $1600. Not my business, if you don't think the SCAR is worth $5k, just don't buy it.

Exactly.

[dustoff31]

it's used by the Elite Spec-Ops , SEALs , SF, and has been used in combat conditions over seas, so it's combat proven.

below a Spec Ops operator is shown using one as a door gunner sniper on a helicopter / gunship!

http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Midwest_Industries_MI_SCAR_Rail_Extension_for_FN_MK_16_FN_MK_17_SCAR_Weapons_Toby_Melville_Bad_Company_Tactical_BCT_4_small.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OM7q8IrqlDk/maxresdefault.jpg

http://weapon-planet.ru/images/galle...FN_SCAR_17.jpg

That is not a picture of a spec ops operator. Although he may have been one at some time.

You can clearly see the US Customs and Border Protection patch below the flag on his right shoulder.

[JackRydden224]

And he's either got the world's best camouflaged mag or he doesn't have a mag in his rifle.

Speaking of M1A or M14, are we talking about Springfield, Fulton, LRB or Smith Enterprise? I'm not family with that platform so are they pretty much the same or are the more expensive ones actually worth the premium.

That is not a picture of a spec ops operator. Although he may have been one at some time.

You can clearly see the US Customs and Border Protection patch below the flag on his right shoulder.

[Mopar Guy]

Everyone is loosing sight of the fact that the price is driven by the new California legislation. The SCAR should be compared to its real competition not M1A or FAL or fill in the blank older battle rifle.

Its competition is the KAC SR25, LMT MWS, HK MR762, DD5V1, LWRC REPR. These rifles are ALL priced about the same or more.

You guys want to compare the SCAR to the M1A, but that is apples to oranges. It's not the same class just because it shoots the same round.

I agree....yes your point is valid. I love my M4 but also got a piston based HK MR556. The technology of the piston action allows for smoother recoil and less corrosion allowing the weapon to run smooth for a long time. This benefit also is valuable for military specs. when using as a full auto rifle. It can avoid the need for a SAW. There are a lot of advantages to the new technology. The barrels are much more solid on the HK and FN series rifles. From what I hear, not through personal experience, a SCAR 17 shoots like a hot 5.56. The IA drills are also an advantage with the SCAR bolt vs AR system. Follows the AK 47 design in reliability, yet with tight tolerances.

Yes, if you want to compare apples to apples, compare the HK MR762 vs SCAR 17 and SCAR 16 vs MR556. For me, the weight of the HK was too much, yet preferred the MR556 over the SCAR 16. It also balanced the collection. Piston based rifles are proven and are superior over the older platforms. The enhancements also are custom to the user as far as set up and platform modifications.

I am placing my vote to old technology for "value" vs "high end" due to market conditions. Forgetting all the noise and hype, I think the SCAR is a great weapon for a collection. It covers modern enhancements.

Valuations are a joke. Under current market conditions, M1A wins all day long. This is not an attack the SCAR 17. It is a market observation.

Have no intentions of selling my SCAR 17. Will probably take a me a few years to really get into that rifle and appreciate it. I am way too much into pistols and CCW currently. Saw the same stupid hype over the Gen 4 glocks. I own 3 of them. I actually prefer Gen 2 glocks as my favorite. Like Gen 4 over Gen 3. Yet I have put thousands and thousands of rounds through a G17.

Without even firing my SCAR 17 as of yet, it appears to be an impressive weapon. One does need to analyse the weapon separately from market conditions, yet market conditions can influence purchases due to the regulatory/political environment. That said, I agree with your above statement.

[ScottsBad]

That is old story and everyone on Calgun read about it a long time ago, but how the heck is that any of your business when you are sitting in Riverside, Reseda, or anywhere in Calif using a bullet buttoned rifle shooting paper targets and having dreams of becoming a mall ninja or an operator? It is like the one in the picture ^^ shooting bad guys out a gun ship using his Scar without a magazine. But, he has good trigger discipline and very attractive to ninjas. :

Ignorance is skin deep, but stupidity is to the bone. You just continually want to make yourself look foolish. You make yourself such a big target, and it is so easy for me to help you with that. You just don't know when to sit down and stop making ridiculous assertions.

I've been shooting off and on for more than fifty years. You have no idea what you are talking about and I would advise that your fantasy of me as a 20-30 something wannabe is so far off the mark it just demonstrates how poor your judgment is.

I won't be responding to your derangement any longer. If you want to PM me feel free.

[skyscraper]

You can cry supply and demand all you want. Like an arm chair economist. It still doesnt mean a SCAR17 is suddenly worth over $5000. Its not food or water or gasoline. There are other much more affordable options that will essentially get you from point A to point B. They are not the same, but they will fill same basic purpose. At $2500-$3000 the SCAR is worth every penny. I have no problems with Captalism, it isnt perfect but its the closest thing to perfection we have. And yes I understand macro economics as I have had to study it for a masters in business. I also studied marketing and accounting which impact price and value as well.

There are two basic concepts here: Price and Value. Most people are just focusing on price and saying "supply and demand" while ignoring value. And also ignoring the fact that some consumers are behaving irrationally, which distorts price.

I have absolutely no problem with people doing whatever they want with their money. They can burn it for all i care. BUT, Im still entitled to my opinion as we all are. And in my opinion, its just silly if not down right dumb.

Did someone here say a scar was worth 5k? Or were they merely pointing out that supply and demand dictates what the current market price is for one?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[Apec]

Just wait and see - later they'll start getting dumped on the marketplace at "normal" prices once bill payments start coming up or people start seeing their optics getting destroyed by recoil (and we're not talking about cheap stuff either). It's a phase, that's all.

[Tere_Hanges]

Did someone here say a scar was worth 5k? Or were they merely pointing out that supply and demand dictates what the current market price is for one?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

It's obvious some people think a SCAR is "worth" $5000+ if thats what they are willing to pay for one. However, just because some people think a SCAR is worth $5000+ doesnt mean everyone else thinks its worth that much. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Supply and demand may dictate price but it doesnt mean that the price will be equal to "worth" or value. Ever heard of the tech bubble? Bubbles can form in any market.

[ScottsBad]

I agree....yes your point is valid. I love my M4 but also got a piston based HK MR556. The technology of the piston action allows for smoother recoil and less corrosion allowing the weapon to run smooth for a long time. This benefit also is valuable for military specs. when using as a full auto rifle. It can avoid the need for a SAW. There are a lot of advantages to the new technology. The barrels are much more solid on the HK and FN series rifles. From what I hear, not through personal experience, a SCAR 17 shoots like a hot 5.56. The IA drills are also an advantage with the SCAR bolt vs AR system. Follows the AK 47 design in reliability, yet with tight tolerances.

Yes, if you want to compare apples to apples, compare the HK MR762 vs SCAR 17 and SCAR 16 vs MR556. For me, the weight of the HK was too much, yet preferred the MR556 over the SCAR 16. It also balanced the collection. Piston based rifles are proven and are superior over the older platforms. The enhancements also are custom to the user as far as set up and platform modifications.

I am placing my vote to old technology for "value" vs "high end" due to market conditions. Forgetting all the noise and hype, I think the SCAR is a great weapon for a collection. It covers modern enhancements.

Valuations are a joke. Under current market conditions, M1A wins all day long. This is not an attack the SCAR 17. It is a market observation.

Have no intentions of selling my SCAR 17. Will probably take a me a few years to really get into that rifle and appreciate it. I am way too much into pistols and CCW currently. Saw the same stupid hype over the Gen 4 glocks. I own 3 of them. I actually prefer Gen 2 glocks as my favorite. Like Gen 4 over Gen 3. Yet I have put thousands and thousands of rounds through a G17.

Without even firing my SCAR 17 as of yet, it appears to be an impressive weapon. One does need to analyse the weapon separately from market conditions, yet market conditions can influence purchases due to the regulatory/political environment. That said, I agree with your above statement.

All excellent points.

I do not have the experience with the HK, I began buying SCARs in 2010-2011 time frame I think. The HK models you speak of were really not part of the equation at the time. If they had been introduced, I simply had nothing to go on regarding them. My memory is a little fuzzy about the dates too.

With regard to the technology, the newer designs are based on old concepts with modern engineering, filling modern requirements. I wouldn't want to start a debate about DI vs. Piston, they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I own a number of DI rifles. But, I believe that the piston concept leaves more room for improvements in design and engineering and can make a better overall rifle if designed and constructed well.

That said, I have a problem with HK's approach on the MR556 and MR762. Instead of designing a piston rifle from the ground up they chose to take a DI design and modify it to be piston driven.

Why did they do this? Well, it seems pretty obvious that they did it for marketing reasons instead of purely engineering/design considerations. It is easier to sell a weapon that doesn't require retraining the soldier and support people. And looks more familiar to the consumer.

Down side is that the AR platform was never designed for grafting on a piston system. And HK's retread retains some of the less helpful design elements of the AR, yet doesn't take advantage of the possibilities that a complete redesign could yield. They are very good rifles, but HK could have done better with a clean sheet. JMHO

Now, to the SCAR. Obviously, the SCAR was driven by a market for a military rifle. Which means that design features are driven by the ridged needs of the military. This is why the SCAR is itself a compromise, but at least it wasn't constrained by the need to make it fit into the M16/ M4 mold.

If it was a consumer rifle it would have a non-reciprocating charging handle for sure. I'm fine with the SCAR system and I even use the stock CH.

If it was a consumer rifle I have no doubt the Gas Block would have been covered and a longer rail would have been part of the design. I also believe the stock would have been different and that PMAGs would have worked right out of the box. There probably would have been other mods too.

The good thing about this is that the SCAR OS design is robust, reliable, elegant, and easy to maintain. And it was WELL tested.

You said, "From what I hear, not through personal experience, a SCAR 17 shoots like a hot 5.56". Well, it shoots like a VERY hot SCAR 16, but you can easily stand there and plink cans with it if you don't add too much weight (this is key IMHO). You can pop multiple shots quickly. And it handles like a little heaver SCAR 16, which means well balanced and not front heavy with optic. This is why I'm against adding a longer rail unless you have to.

I've been using one of my 17s with an Atlas only about 25% of the time, yet I've found no need for a longer rail. I shoot old style though and don't have long arms. Surfire M600 can be attached to the top rail with a tape switch.

There are two small downsides to shooting the 17, one, is that until you learn how to locate your cheek on the stock you can experience "cheek slap". You'll learn how to avoid that pretty quickly, pain is the best teacher. In my opinion, I got cheek slap more frequently from the bench when I was starting then I got while shooting in other unsupported positions. And I don't experience it anymore. I keep the cheek riser(?) in the down position most of the time too.

Two, the muzzle brake is what makes the SCAR 17 super successful in mitigating recoil and muzzle rise. But it is BLASTY. I would not change it unless you have to however, because the rifle and brake work together. A different brake might destroy the magic, but I've never tried it.

Like any new weapon it will take time to appreciate and explore its capabilities, I'm sure I will never even be able to explore its potential. All it needs is ammo. Maybe an optic and if you have a few extra bucks a trigger.

If you feed it quality 168gr match ammo (plain old FGMM 168Gr works fine, or other quality ammo) and know how to pull a trigger, it will reward you with terrific groups.

Keep it light, don't put the hubble telescope on top and it will reward you with great handling. Use factory mags and never have a cycling failure. Use good ammo, and it will run like an oiled sewing machine powered by 400hp.

I'm pretty sure you'll like it. But don't expect to be blown away, it's a rifle you will grow to appreciate.

[ScottsBad]

Did someone here say a scar was worth 5k? Or were they merely pointing out that supply and demand dictates what the current market price is for one?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Another troll? No, it's only worth $5k to the guy willing to pay it. That would not be me.