Never mind

[john myers]

.........

consignment?

[GOLDEN GUN]

Impossible,

DOJ requires seller name and address as well as DL info.. They pretty much scan a DL for both parties when they do a PPT.

Second of all, the ATF requires the FFL log in who brought the gun into their book.

The only way I can see this happening is if am FFL convinces a LEO to buy an off roster gun and to immedietly put it for sale on consignment for a quick profit.

Both would be putting the LEOs career on hot water so I doubt anyone is stupid enough to do that for a few hundred bucks.

Sorry but since u don't have too many details. My guess is you are speculating down the incorrect assumptions

[AregularGuy]

What I mean is (assuming, as I really don't want to point fingers) some FFLs were falsely using third party names to sell off roster pistols, since (as you said) seller doesn't have to prove ownership, and seller doesn't have to finger print on PPT/DROS. (Since several cases like this is still in court, so until proven guilty, I can only say "assuming")

If you obtain such pistols through this way from your friendly FFL, there's a chance CA DOJ might be interested to talk to you. Depend on if said FFL is under investigation or not.

And if you obtained it via your friendly LE personal, and he didn't wait a reasonable time (6~12 month), or did this frequently (usually the case), same thing might happen.

Sorry, I call shenanigans. The elements as you lay them out have no basis in fact or reason. LEO has to wait a "reasonable time"? 6-12 months? Says who? They can dislike a purchase, regret a purchase, or need dough just like the rest of us. "Straw purchases" from an ffl in CA using made up second party names? As mentioned in the post above, they would have to create an entire identity with I.D. ect. I don't see any of this as plausible.

[EndoDef]

Not sure if it's relevant or not. I was delayed a whole 29 days during a DROS while trying to purchase two off roster guns. Seller was LEO.

[Baer1911]

This is just a friendly reminder to some of our fellow CA sellers.

Based on very recent incidents between CA FFLs and CA DOJ, there're undergoing investigations involving PPT off roster pistols.

If you're selling off roster pistols via PPT, make sure your original obtaining sources are legit.

I don't have specific informations on current CA DOJ action against questionable PPT off roster pistols sources, but I do know there're ongoing investigations on this topic. People got arrested as recent as this week.

And JFYI, Bail bond agents charge 10% fee of the bail amount, typical lawyers charge $25,000 (and up) non-refundable retaining fees for cases like these.

Please be careful.

Its not that we dont believe you, its the sources and who are said FFLs?(PM me if you want thanks!)

And since no SSE anymore, how can they even get DOJ approval?? I know FFL logged pistols cannot be sold as PPT??

Does that mean someone found a loophole and DOJ trying to shut it down or was it just some fake and never approved dros?????

Come on, you didnt warn anyone, you raised 1000 questions right here!!!

And since all my for sale off roster pistols were obtained from calguners. Does that mean I am worry free or if the calguner I bought from were straw purchased FFL am I still in trouble?

How do I find out if my purchase was legit???

[John Browning]

Its not that we dont believe you, its the sources and who are said FFLs?(PM me if you want thanks!)

And since no SSE anymore, how can they even get DOJ approval?? I know FFL logged pistols cannot be sold as PPT??

Does that mean someone found a loophole and DOJ trying to shut it down or was it just some fake and never approved dros?????

Come on, you didnt warn anyone, you raised 1000 questions right here!!!

And since all my for sale off roster pistols were obtained from calguners. Does that mean I am worry free or if the calguner I bought from were straw purchased FFL am I still in trouble?

How do I find out if my purchase was legit???

The buyers have nothing to worry about unless the gun is stolen.

I would say that sellers have nothing to worry about either. Sounds like this is a case of a shady FFL(S) breaking the law and knowing they are breaking the law while doing it.

[Baer1911]

The buyers have nothing to worry about unless the gun is stolen.

I would say that sellers have nothing to worry about either. Sounds like this is a case of a shady FFL(S) breaking the law and knowing they are breaking the law while doing it.

Thanks, I always ask FFL gave me a copy of dros paper after release. At least it says APPROVED!!!

[kel-tec-innovations]

"make sure your original obtaining sources are legit."

I doubt the thieves that broke in to gun stores and stole the guns would sell to buyers through legal PPT. Criminals would just sell the guns on the street.

Why risk PPT where the gun shop will obtain a copy of their photo drivers license, be on video, fill out paper work etc.

They can sell the pistol for double or trade for drugs on the street.


We need to get rid of the roster once and for all. Do any other states do the roster nonsense?

[ifilef]

Thanks, I always ask FFL gave me a copy of dros paper after release. At least it says APPROVED!!!

Me, too. According to law, seller must request a copy of seller's part of the DROS at the PPT, though some FFL's choose to provide a copy to seller as a matter of course.

[ifilef]

"make sure your original obtaining sources are legit."

I doubt the thieves that broke in to gun stores and stole the guns would sell to buyers through legal PPT. Criminals would just sell the guns on the street.

Why risk PPT where the gun shop will obtain a copy of their photo drivers license, be on video, fill out paper work etc.

They can sell the pistol for double or trade for drugs on the street.


We need to get rid of the roster once and for all. Do any other states do the roster nonsense?

Yes, I believe that Maryland has a Roster, possibly D.C., too; there may be others.

[The Gleam]

"make sure your original obtaining sources are legit."

I doubt the thieves that broke in to gun stores and stole the guns would sell to buyers through legal PPT. Criminals would just sell the guns on the street.

Why risk PPT where the gun shop will obtain a copy of their photo drivers license, be on video, fill out paper work etc.

They can sell the pistol for double or trade for drugs on the street.

Agree. Criminals are dumb, but not that dumb.

[The Gleam]

Believe it or not is up to your own interpertaion.
All I can tell you is there're several cases under indictment as we speak, all criminal charged with multiple accounts, arrested and bailed.

Cite them, or you're peddling FUD.

If they are actual cases, they can be cited by name and case-number on CA Court Filing records which can be looked up online. If you also know of them, that means you can cite them.

Otherwise it's baseless rumor, the kind of crap peddled by MotherJones and MoveOn.org shills.

[feige2see]

5 sales per year

Does the 5 sales include trades?

[tonyxcom]

How would the DOJ know its a trade?

You are either a seller or a buyer. You are limited to 5 seller transactions.

[tonyxcom]

In first post you say...

I don't have specific informations on current CA DOJ action against questionable PPT off roster pistols sources, but I do know there're ongoing investigations on this topic. People got arrested as recent as this week.

then you say...

All I can tell you is there're several cases under indictment as we speak, all criminal charged with multiple accounts, arrested and bailed.

Cases I'm familiar with are all still in court, I can't disclose specific details.