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  • #31
    john myers
    Member
    • Jul 2013
    • 414

    .........

    consignment?

    Comment

    • #32
      GOLDEN GUN
      Banned
      • Dec 2012
      • 2326

      Impossible,

      DOJ requires seller name and address as well as DL info.. They pretty much scan a DL for both parties when they do a PPT.

      Second of all, the ATF requires the FFL log in who brought the gun into their book.

      The only way I can see this happening is if am FFL convinces a LEO to buy an off roster gun and to immedietly put it for sale on consignment for a quick profit.

      Both would be putting the LEOs career on hot water so I doubt anyone is stupid enough to do that for a few hundred bucks.

      Sorry but since u don't have too many details. My guess is you are speculating down the incorrect assumptions

      Comment

      • #33
        AregularGuy
        Veteran Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 2792

        Originally posted by sidelock
        What I mean is (assuming, as I really don't want to point fingers) some FFLs were falsely using third party names to sell off roster pistols, since (as you said) seller doesn't have to prove ownership, and seller doesn't have to finger print on PPT/DROS. (Since several cases like this is still in court, so until proven guilty, I can only say "assuming")

        If you obtain such pistols through this way from your friendly FFL, there's a chance CA DOJ might be interested to talk to you. Depend on if said FFL is under investigation or not.

        And if you obtained it via your friendly LE personal, and he didn't wait a reasonable time (6~12 month), or did this frequently (usually the case), same thing might happen.
        Sorry, I call shenanigans. The elements as you lay them out have no basis in fact or reason. LEO has to wait a "reasonable time"? 6-12 months? Says who? They can dislike a purchase, regret a purchase, or need dough just like the rest of us. "Straw purchases" from an ffl in CA using made up second party names? As mentioned in the post above, they would have to create an entire identity with I.D. ect. I don't see any of this as plausible.
        All posts dedicated to the memory of Stronzo Bestiale

        "You want my sister but now scam my Glocks too?
        How about my sister? what can she do now? Still virgin and need Glcok."

        ---ARegularGuy

        NRA Patron Member

        Comment

        • #34
          EndoDef
          Member
          • Jun 2016
          • 286

          Not sure if it's relevant or not. I was delayed a whole 29 days during a DROS while trying to purchase two off roster guns. Seller was LEO.
          Fudd Lord

          Comment

          • #35
            Baer1911
            Senior Member
            • May 2011
            • 809

            Originally posted by sidelock
            This is just a friendly reminder to some of our fellow CA sellers.

            Based on very recent incidents between CA FFLs and CA DOJ, there're undergoing investigations involving PPT off roster pistols.

            If you're selling off roster pistols via PPT, make sure your original obtaining sources are legit.

            I don't have specific informations on current CA DOJ action against questionable PPT off roster pistols sources, but I do know there're ongoing investigations on this topic. People got arrested as recent as this week.

            And JFYI, Bail bond agents charge 10% fee of the bail amount, typical lawyers charge $25,000 (and up) non-refundable retaining fees for cases like these.

            Please be careful.
            Its not that we dont believe you, its the sources and who are said FFLs?(PM me if you want thanks!)

            And since no SSE anymore, how can they even get DOJ approval?? I know FFL logged pistols cannot be sold as PPT??

            Does that mean someone found a loophole and DOJ trying to shut it down or was it just some fake and never approved dros?????

            Come on, you didnt warn anyone, you raised 1000 questions right here!!!

            And since all my for sale off roster pistols were obtained from calguners. Does that mean I am worry free or if the calguner I bought from were straw purchased FFL am I still in trouble?

            How do I find out if my purchase was legit???
            Stuff I got for sale:
            +++ Dan Wesson DWX, Glock 47 MOS, Walther PPK Stainless Steel, Canik Rival Dark Side, Canik Mete SF, FN 509 LS EDGE OR, Springfield SA35 Hi Power, HK VP Match OR, Beretta 92XI SAO, Beretta APX A1 and more



            Comment

            • #36
              John Browning
              Calguns Addict
              • May 2006
              • 8089

              Originally posted by Baer1911
              Its not that we dont believe you, its the sources and who are said FFLs?(PM me if you want thanks!)

              And since no SSE anymore, how can they even get DOJ approval?? I know FFL logged pistols cannot be sold as PPT??

              Does that mean someone found a loophole and DOJ trying to shut it down or was it just some fake and never approved dros?????

              Come on, you didnt warn anyone, you raised 1000 questions right here!!!

              And since all my for sale off roster pistols were obtained from calguners. Does that mean I am worry free or if the calguner I bought from were straw purchased FFL am I still in trouble?

              How do I find out if my purchase was legit???
              The buyers have nothing to worry about unless the gun is stolen.

              I would say that sellers have nothing to worry about either. Sounds like this is a case of a shady FFL(S) breaking the law and knowing they are breaking the law while doing it.
              For Sale: Off Roster Handgun Moving Sale

              For Sale: Off Roster CZ, Browning, PTR 91 Moving Sale

              Originally posted by KWalkerM
              eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.

              Comment

              • #37
                Baer1911
                Senior Member
                • May 2011
                • 809

                Originally posted by scobun
                The buyers have nothing to worry about unless the gun is stolen.

                I would say that sellers have nothing to worry about either. Sounds like this is a case of a shady FFL(S) breaking the law and knowing they are breaking the law while doing it.
                Thanks, I always ask FFL gave me a copy of dros paper after release. At least it says APPROVED!!!
                Stuff I got for sale:
                +++ Dan Wesson DWX, Glock 47 MOS, Walther PPK Stainless Steel, Canik Rival Dark Side, Canik Mete SF, FN 509 LS EDGE OR, Springfield SA35 Hi Power, HK VP Match OR, Beretta 92XI SAO, Beretta APX A1 and more



                Comment

                • #38
                  kel-tec-innovations
                  Veteran Member
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 3931

                  "make sure your original obtaining sources are legit."

                  I doubt the thieves that broke in to gun stores and stole the guns would sell to buyers through legal PPT. Criminals would just sell the guns on the street.

                  Why risk PPT where the gun shop will obtain a copy of their photo drivers license, be on video, fill out paper work etc.

                  They can sell the pistol for double or trade for drugs on the street.


                  We need to get rid of the roster once and for all. Do any other states do the roster nonsense?
                  WTS: Mossberg RARE Bullpup
                  WTS: Glock 27 Nickel Boron coated 2 tone
                  American Defense 20 MOA mount, AK47 AK74 Bullpup kit, Midwest AK rails Krink
                  WTS: 7n6 5.45x39 spam cans / Crates IE area Riverside San Bernardino

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    ifilef
                    Banned
                    • Apr 2008
                    • 5665

                    Originally posted by Baer1911
                    Thanks, I always ask FFL gave me a copy of dros paper after release. At least it says APPROVED!!!
                    Me, too. According to law, seller must request a copy of seller's part of the DROS at the PPT, though some FFL's choose to provide a copy to seller as a matter of course.

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      ifilef
                      Banned
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 5665

                      Originally posted by kel-tec-innovations
                      "make sure your original obtaining sources are legit."

                      I doubt the thieves that broke in to gun stores and stole the guns would sell to buyers through legal PPT. Criminals would just sell the guns on the street.

                      Why risk PPT where the gun shop will obtain a copy of their photo drivers license, be on video, fill out paper work etc.

                      They can sell the pistol for double or trade for drugs on the street.


                      We need to get rid of the roster once and for all. Do any other states do the roster nonsense?
                      Yes, I believe that Maryland has a Roster, possibly D.C., too; there may be others.

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        The Gleam
                        I need a LIFE!!
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 12474

                        Originally posted by kel-tec-innovations
                        "make sure your original obtaining sources are legit."

                        I doubt the thieves that broke in to gun stores and stole the guns would sell to buyers through legal PPT. Criminals would just sell the guns on the street.

                        Why risk PPT where the gun shop will obtain a copy of their photo drivers license, be on video, fill out paper work etc.

                        They can sell the pistol for double or trade for drugs on the street.
                        Agree. Criminals are dumb, but not that dumb.
                        -----------------------------------------------
                        Originally posted by Librarian
                        What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

                        If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          The Gleam
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 12474

                          Originally posted by sidelock
                          Believe it or not is up to your own interpertaion.
                          All I can tell you is there're several cases under indictment as we speak, all criminal charged with multiple accounts, arrested and bailed.
                          Cite them, or you're peddling FUD.

                          If they are actual cases, they can be cited by name and case-number on CA Court Filing records which can be looked up online. If you also know of them, that means you can cite them.

                          Otherwise it's baseless rumor, the kind of crap peddled by MotherJones and MoveOn.org shills.
                          -----------------------------------------------
                          Originally posted by Librarian
                          What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

                          If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            feige2see
                            Junior Member
                            • Jun 2011
                            • 47

                            5 sales per year

                            Does the 5 sales include trades?

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              tonyxcom
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 6397

                              How would the DOJ know its a trade?

                              You are either a seller or a buyer. You are limited to 5 seller transactions.

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                tonyxcom
                                Calguns Addict
                                • Aug 2011
                                • 6397

                                In first post you say...

                                Originally posted by sidelock
                                I don't have specific informations on current CA DOJ action against questionable PPT off roster pistols sources, but I do know there're ongoing investigations on this topic. People got arrested as recent as this week.

                                then you say...

                                Originally posted by sidelock
                                All I can tell you is there're several cases under indictment as we speak, all criminal charged with multiple accounts, arrested and bailed.

                                Cases I'm familiar with are all still in court, I can't disclose specific details.

                                Comment

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