Question: How off-roster guns get into CA?

[Cokebottle]

Or they were on roster prior, and were dropped.

That's why I specifically cited the Gen4 Glock.
It has never been rostered (yes, there are SSE out there)

[Chewy65]

When the gun is transferred from the dealer's personal collection to a private party, it is not an inventory transfer, thus, it would be a PPT and roster exempt.

27545 does not PRECLUDE a dealer from participating in a PPT at another FFL.
It may or may not require it, but there is nothing to prevent the owner of Stockade from going to Ammo Bros to transfer a handgun to someone else.

Coming from his private collection, it does not need to be logged out of his books, therefore it is a PPT and roster exempt.


Once again, the problem is the FFL getting it FROM inventory into his personal collection.
There is currently not a legal way for an FFL to have come into possession of a Gen4 Glock in his personal collection unless he received it via PPT.

This is so simple. Yes, an FFL has a problem getting inventory into his personal collection. We agree. I also agree that once it is in his private collection (and it has been for a year) it looks as though he may, but is not required to, transfer through a 27545, but I do not agree that every PPT is roster exempt. Obviously I can't convince you and see no need to beat this horse to death.

Of course it also may be that no or such an insignificant number of off roster guns have been transferred by non-exempt FFL's to private collecions and later sold into the market by PPT's that Kamela isn't about to spend resources on prosecuting anyone for it. Then again, given the political climate don't count on it.

[gbarbo001]

If a handgun is on the roster and the manufacture changes one part (upgrades or even buying the same part from a different supplier) if falls off the roster.

Wilson Combat changed the design of the eagle emblem on their 1911 grips. They keep a supply of their former eagle grip emblems for guns destined for CA.

Another example: I ordered an Ed Brown Kobra Carry (CA approved model) directly from Ed Brown. They refused to put their slim grips on it for me because the CA approved model was not tested with slim grips. So I bought a pair of slim grips separately. I ended up paying like $30 extra in the deal. Yes, it did piss me off.

[ucsdryder]

I live outside of california. Can I gift my dad who is a ca resident an off roster handgun? If so what's the process?

[Maht_g]

When the gun is transferred from the dealer's personal collection to a private party, it is not an inventory transfer, thus, it would be a PPT and roster exempt.

27545 does not PRECLUDE a dealer from participating in a PPT at another FFL.
It may or may not require it, but there is nothing to prevent the owner of Stockade from going to Ammo Bros to transfer a handgun to someone else.

Coming from his private collection, it does not need to be logged out of his books, therefore it is a PPT and roster exempt.


Once again, the problem is the FFL getting it FROM inventory into his personal collection.
There is currently not a legal way for an FFL to have come into possession of a Gen4 Glock in his personal collection unless he received it via PPT.

+1, hit the nail on the head, again.

[Cokebottle]

I live outside of california. Can I gift my dad who is a ca resident an off roster handgun? If so what's the process?

Have him get in touch with an FFL that recognizes the fact that the intrafamilial transfer is roster-exempt.
You ship the gun to the FFL, overnight, signature required, FedEx or UPS
He completes DROS, pays the $25 DOJ fee plus whatever transfer fee the FFL charges (could be $100 or more, but we can help find a reasonable dealer), and waits 10 days.

[Chewy65]

Can anybody cite any authority, albeit a statute, code, regulation, decision, AOG opinion, ordinance or other law saying that the exemption provided by PC 32110 applies where a dealer is a party to the sale, lease, or transfer of a firearm from the dealer's personal collection?

[Cody805]

So I'm still trying to understand this. How do off-roster firearms get into CA?

Usually in a car... Or a truck lol

[djflash]

A dealers personal collection is the same as yours or mine. They PPT it just like everyone else. What's the confusion?

[Chewy65]

A dealers personal collection is the same as yours or mine. They PPT it just like everyone else. What's the confusion?

Then you should easily be able to cite some authority. What is it?

[djflash]

you have no authority!* It's like an urban legend.* Just because everyone says its so doesn't mean they are correct. Think about it without assuming the masses are correct because they say they so.

Let's just be sure to capture your ****ty attitude as well.

Then you should easily be able to cite some authority. What is it?

This is like saying show me the PC that says SSE conversions are legal
Or how about those bullet button things. Good luck with your Google searches.

[Chewy65]

As I thought, you are unable to come up with any authority.

[Cokebottle]

As I thought, you are unable to come up with any authority.

It can be difficult, because legally, that which is not specifically prohibited is generally permitted.

Meaning, the lack of a statute stating that it is not permitted for a dealer to utilize another FFL to execute a PPT is the "authority".

IOTW: It is on you to find a statute that specifically prohibits it.
Your cites above indicating "if both parties are not dealers" does not apply because it is not exclusive.

[Chewy65]

I gave you the statutory prohibition (PC 32000) and it is for you to find an exception. The exception you are trying to rely upon (PC 32110) only exists where neither party is a dealer. The issue here is not if a dealer may use it to do a sale through a third party, but if in these circumstances they must do so "in order to comply" with 27545. If you want to try to claim that a dealer is not a dealer when selling from their personal firearm collection, it's on you to do so.

Besides, why should anyone care if this is or is not exempt? I believe you or someone else said a transfer from inventory to a dealer's private firearm collection is not exempt. If that is so, none of them would later be selling off roster guns in an arguably exempt private party like transaction (PPLT). I think it best to call it a PPLT since a true PPT is one in which both parties is a private person and not a dealer.

[Topflight80]

I don't think any LEO would want to jeopardize his job and/or possibility of incarceration with a straw purchase.
Now if you know a LEO that has a firearm that he genuinely doesn't like and is willing to sell to you, that's different.

Yeah no LEO would do that especially with a Glock 43