Question: How off-roster guns get into CA?

[Maht_g]

I was talking in the context of when an off roster handgun transferred from inventory into the private firearm collection was sold via a PPT.

It would be impossible for ffl (unless he is also LEO) to transfer off roster gun from store inventory to his personal collection post-SSE... Rather moot to argue if he could sell a gun ppt he couldn't have transferred/owned in the first place.

[Chewy65]

It would be impossible for ffl (unless he is also LEO) to transfer off roster gun from store inventory to his personal collection post-SSE... Rather moot to argue if he could sell a gun ppt he couldn't have transferred/owned in the first place.

Exactly, yet some argue that they can.

[Maht_g]

^^^Ya, pretty sure you were...

Your contention was that he could transfer off roster from inventory but couldn't sell them to any ordinary citizen ppt...

Just about everybody else said he COULDNT transfer off roster directly from inventory, but if he owned off roster from SSE, ppt, etc, that he could definitely sell ppt to whoever he wants, his ffl status is irrelevant when selling from private collection.

[gsparesa]

OP, are you anti second amendment ?

[Chewy65]

OP, are you anti second amendment ?

Of course not.

[Chewy65]

^^^Ya, pretty sure you were...:facepalm:

Your contention was that he could transfer off roster from inventory but couldn't sell them to any ordinary citizen ppt...

Just about everybody else said he COULDNT transfer off roster directly from inventory, but if he owned off roster from SSE, ppt, etc, that he could definitely sell ppt to whoever he wants, his ffl status is irrelevant when selling from private collection.

If you are going to face palm me, show me the courtesy of where I said this.

[vliberatore]

It would be impossible for ffl (unless he is also LEO) to transfer off roster gun from store inventory to his personal collection post-SSE... Rather moot to argue if he could sell a gun ppt he couldn't have transferred/owned in the first place.

Couldn't an 07 FFL do that with some configuration changes?

[Maht_g]

Pretty much what you said here:

Some guy on another CalGun thread is adamant that an FFL can sell a non-exempt person an off roster handgun in a PPT as long as it was transferred from inventory into the FFL's private collection at least year before the PPT.

I believe he is flat wrong.

And here (from the other thread):

"Take a step back and ask yourself why a dealer should be able sell an off roster firearm by virtue of the fact that they held it in a private firearm collection and do the transaction through another dealer."

[Chewy65]

Pretty much what you said here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Some guy on another CalGun thread is adamant that an FFL can sell a non-exempt person an off roster handgun in a PPT as long as it was transferred from inventory into the FFL's private collection at least year before the PPT.

I believe he is flat wrong. I plainly am disagreeing with the assertion that the exemption for a PPT applies where the seller is an FFL and not saying a thing about if would be exempt if done as a dealer.

And here (from the other thread):

"Take a step back and ask yourself why a dealer should be able sell an off roster firearm by virtue of the fact that they held it in a private firearm collection and do the transaction through another dealer." I am clearly asking why it a dealer should be permitted to sell an off roster firearm because it comes from their "private firearm collection" through another dealer' a transaction known as a PPT.

How the heck do those posts support your assertion that my

contention was that he could transfer off roster from inventory but couldn't sell them to any ordinary citizen ppt...

What you dug is plainly not even close to saying that a dealer could sell off roster out of inventory absent an exemption!
Discussing whether or not a PPT is exempt from the roster has nothing to do with whether a sale from inventory is or is not exempt. You may have gotten confused by the fact that I question whether it is exempt by virtue of the fact that even though they are selling our of their "private firearms collection" they still are a dealer. That does not mean that should they sell the gun as a dealer the transaction would then be exempt.

[Cokebottle]

Couldn't an 07 FFL do that with some configuration changes?

It's still possible for some guns, but not for all.
SSE2 is not anywhere near as simple as SSE was.

The single action exemption is still GTG, so off-roster revolvers are still quite workable, but Gen 4 Glocks, LCP, LC9... I'm not sure it's possible.

[Cokebottle]

The reference to "neither party being a dealer" in the statute is to clarify that if neither party is a dealer, they must PPT through an FFL.

That wording does not prohibit a dealer from executing a PPT through another dealer. I think you are reading too much into the phrase.

[vliberatore]

It's still possible for some guns, but not for all.
SSE2 is not anywhere near as simple as SSE was.

The single action exemption is still GTG, so off-roster revolvers are still quite workable, but Gen 4 Glocks, LCP, LC9... I'm not sure it's possible.

Right. AFAIK the only available bolt/break slide/"upper" for an off-roster pistol is for a 1911.

[Chewy65]

The reference to "neither party being a dealer" in the statute is to clarify that if neither party is a dealer, they must PPT through an FFL.

That wording does not prohibit a dealer from executing a PPT through another dealer. I think you are reading too much into the phrase.

No Cokebottle, my best interpretation is that it can be done through a third party but the transaction is not roster exempt. Was the transaction itself illegal even if the firearm was on the roster I don't know and neither have I focused on that issue but I think it is permissible if one of the parties is an FFL. If neither than it is mandatory per the language of PC 27545:

Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

The Roster exemption for the PPT only exists if the transaction is done in that fashion in order to comply with 27545. See PC 32110"

Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to any of the following:
(a) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050) of Division 6 in order to comply with Section 27545

Where their was no need to do the transaction as a PPT since the selling or buyer is a dealer, it isn't being done to comply with 27545. Doing a transaction in a form for the purpose of generating an exemption is not the same as doing it in order to comply with a section for which's use the exemption is ancillary.

[Cokebottle]

Where their was no need to do the transaction as a PPT since the selling or buyer is a dealer, it isn't being done to comply with 27545. Doing a transaction in a form for the purpose of generating an exemption is not the same as doing it in order to comply with a section for which's use the exemption is ancillary.

When the gun is transferred from the dealer's personal collection to a private party, it is not an inventory transfer, thus, it would be a PPT and roster exempt.

27545 does not PRECLUDE a dealer from participating in a PPT at another FFL.
It may or may not require it, but there is nothing to prevent the owner of Stockade from going to Ammo Bros to transfer a handgun to someone else.

Coming from his private collection, it does not need to be logged out of his books, therefore it is a PPT and roster exempt.


Once again, the problem is the FFL getting it FROM inventory into his personal collection.
There is currently not a legal way for an FFL to have come into possession of a Gen4 Glock in his personal collection unless he received it via PPT.

[MrSam]

Or they were on roster prior, and were dropped.