Begging for Jail Time?

[BC9696]

Okay...seeking educated legal opinions. Let's say you are in the habit of leaving a legally locked/stored firearm in your vehicle even though your county refuses to issue CCW permits. Your concerned that the threat of a jihadist attack (which have impacted too many Americans on US soil to count during Obama's watch and attacks appear to be increasing) may leave you and others in harm's way. So you keep a firearm (legally) in your car "just in case."

Now you're at the mall, work or some other place when a gunman/men opens fire. People are dying. The right thing to do is stop the murderers but that's technically illegal. But hey...so is what they are doing. Is it not in society's interest for everyone to run to their cars and retrieve their weapons to try and stop the attackers killing unarmed civilians, even if they cannot get a CCW for 'political" reasons?

[P5Ret]

So what your idea is, is to run out to your car get your gun and run back into the kill zone?

I carry to protect myself and loved ones, not to play hero and run into a kill zone. What is to prevent someone who may be legally carrying and has also gotten to a place where they can escape from seeing you running in now armed and engaging you? I agree that we should be as prepared as possible, but I don't think charging back in once I've gotten myself and loved ones out is a real good idea.

[Capybara]

I agree with what P5Ret said. Our goals for self-defense aren't to be heroes, just to stop direct threats to our lives. In many of the mass shootings, you are up against multiple shooters with either fully or semi auto rifles. A carry pistol is a little unmatched against semi-auto or full auto rifles. The primary idea is to escape with your, your family or innocent bystanders lives, not engage in a gun battle or get shot. IMHO, these sorts of things usually happen so quickly that keeping it in your car is almost pointless. I am not against it but as far as practical application in stopping or slowing down a threat in a shooting attack, not a very large chance it would help. The Paris Bataclan incident with the shooters taking a long time to methodically kill each victim was unusual.

You cannot beat on-body carry. Those rare times when I carry off-body in a laptop case or backpack, even then I look at how long it would take me to get to my gun versus how quickly mass shootings usually occur and have decided it is barely worth it to ever off body carry, although it is still better than nothing. Plus, I then lose direct control over a loaded weapon, which makes me nervous. I am also growing in my advocacy of having armed choices. My EDC kit consists of a Sabre Red Pepper Spray, a Spyderco Matriarch and my CCW pistol with an extra magazine. It would be nice to have choices, rather than just my hands and a gun to defend myself/stop a threat although it would be difficult to know how quickly a situation might escalate. Choices are always good. If you don't have a CCW, I would always carry pepper spray and a good knife.

[Untamed1972]

All practical considerations already noted above....You are legally allowed to "retrieve a firearm" and have it loaded in public and use it for defense if needed from the time a threat appears till the time LE arrives. This is actually in the penal code.

So retrieving a firearm from your vehicle, loading and engaging a threat, even without a CCW, would not be a crime per the CA-PC.

[Paladin]

Okay...seeking educated legal opinions. Let's say you are in the habit of leaving a legally locked/stored firearm in your vehicle even though your county refuses to issue CCW permits. Your concerned that the threat of a jihadist attack (which have impacted too many Americans on US soil to count during Obama's watch and attacks appear to be increasing) may leave you and others in harm's way. So you keep a firearm (legally) in your car "just in case."

Acc to your info, you live in So OC. OC readily issues CCWs as long as you have a clean background (GMC), so this hypothetical does not really apply to you personally.

Now you're at the mall, work or some other place when a gunman/men opens fire. People are dying. The right thing to do is stop the murderers but that's technically illegal. But hey...so is what they are doing. Is it not in society's interest for everyone to run to their cars and retrieve their weapons to try and stop the attackers killing unarmed civilians, even if they cannot get a CCW for 'political" reasons?

Why do you think such would be illegal? Because you'd be intentionally violating a mall's "No Guns" policy?

The real problem here is that I'd expect LEOs to show up within 5 min of initial gunshots. How long would it take you to size up the situation, instruct family on what to do and what you're about to do, figure out a safe way of getting out to your car and then doing that, opening the trunk, unlocking the lock box, loading up, and then running back into the mall (with sheeple now calling in your description to 9-1-1 as a man w/a longarm running into the mall), tracking down where the BG/s are now, figuring out a good spot to both shoot him/them and not get shot, and then actually taking the shot/s w/o LEOs taking you out as a presumtive BG?

Go ahead and keep a trunk gun, but realize the odds of an incident where it would actually, safely "work" are microscopically small....

[phdo]

So what your idea is, is to run out to your car get your gun and run back into the kill zone?

I carry to protect myself and loved ones, not to play hero and run into a kill zone. What is to prevent someone who may be legally carrying and has also gotten to a place where they can escape from seeing you running in now armed and engaging you? I agree that we should be as prepared as possible, but I don't think charging back in once I've gotten myself and loved ones out is a real good idea.

I am phdo and I approve this message.

[Chunky_lover]

yeah too much can happen if you think you can go out get a weapon and go back in

someone can mistake you for a bad guy, plus you were already out of harms way and go back in to look for danger

may not end to well, especially if you somehow cause others to get killed somehow


why not carry the gun in a locked container, like a backpack pocket inside the mall
then at least its with you and could be a more legit reason to possibly use it, if your life was in danger

[Dano3467]

That's a dangerous game you'll be playing (in court later)

Their gonna want to know why you fled to safe zone, only to come back to shoot with your unlawful carry gun.

[pluke the 2]

i thought, you cannot have a handgun in your vehicle unless you are going to or from certain specified activities, such as a shooting range. You can't keep a handgun in your vehicle on a daily basis, locked and unloaded or not.

unless you have your ccw, correct?

[Untamed1972]

That's a dangerous game you'll be playing (in court later)

Their gonna want to know why you fled to safe zone, only to come back to shoot with your unlawful carry gun.

It wouldn't be unlawfully carried. And use of deadly force is defense of others is also legal.

I mean with everyone else on the practical, boots on the ground reality of doing so.

But nothing about retrieving an unloaded and properly stored/transported firearm from your car, and loading it an acting I the defense of others is illegal.

The OPs scenario was mall, likely to have a decent LE response time in an urban area. What if its an active shooting in more rural area where LE response time is much longer? Retrieving a firearm from a vehicle might suddenly become a more reasonable possibility.

Didn't some school principal somewhere in the Midwest do just that? Small town school somewhere.....kid starts shooting, and the principal retrieved a rifle from his personal vehicle and engaged the shooter? This was a few years back, but I remember reading about it.

[BC9696]

Ha!

Acc to your info, you live in So OC. OC readily issues CCWs as long as you have a clean background (GMC), so this hypothetical does not really apply to you personally.

Why do you think such would be illegal? Because you'd be intentionally violating a mall's "No Guns" policy?

The real problem here is that I'd expect LEOs to show up within 5 min of initial gunshots. How long would it take you to size up the situation, instruct family on what to do and what you're about to do, figure out a safe way of getting out to your car and then doing that, opening the trunk, unlocking the lox box, loading up, and then running back into the mall (with sheeple now calling in your description to 9-1-1 as a man w/a longarm running into the mall), tracking down where the BG/s are now, figuring out a good spot to both shoot him/them and not get shot, and then actually taking the shot/s w/o LEOs taking you out as a presumtive BG?

Go ahead and keep a trunk gun, but realize the odds of an incident where it would actually, safely "work" are microscopically small....

Just try to get a CCW permit in Orange County. Even after the court decision the B in charge is not issuing permits and in fact has revoked many. Now she says she's waiting for the case to be reheard.

As for the cited law allowing the use of a firearm in defense before LEO arrives...that's welcome news I was unaware of.

I admit I am naive about these things but in the broader sense feel we as a society need to be much more prepared to deal with this growing threat, the status quo sucks. If an active shooter was engaging in the wholesale slaughter of holiday shoppers at the mall, would I go in with a Glock and some magaizines to try to stop it and possibly get shot? Yes I would. But then I've lived a fairly long and privileged life and feel we are our brother's keeper. I don't think I could stand getting away and listening to the shots erupt without taking some action. I would feel awful knowing lives were lost and I may have been able to prevent some of the deaths. Yes, I might incur friendly fire as well but it would be a risk I would willingly take. There are worse ways to die than trying to save lives.

[pluke the 2]

Just try to get a CCW permit in Orange County. Even after the court decision the B in charge is not issuing permits and in fact has revoked many. Now she says she's waiting for the case to be reheard.

As for the cited law allowing the use of a firearm in defense before LEO arrives...that's welcome news I was unaware of.

I admit I am naive about these things but in the broader sense feel we as a society need to be much more prepared to deal with this growing threat, the status quo sucks. If an active shooter was engaging in the wholesale slaughter of holiday shoppers at the mall, would I go in with a Glock and some magaizines to try to stop it and possibly get shot? Yes I would. But then I've lived a fairly long and privileged life and feel we are our brother's keeper. I don't think I could stand getting away and listening to the shots erupt without taking some action. I would feel awful knowing lives were lost and I may have been able to prevent some of the deaths.

Lol you're so wrong about oc ccw

[JDay]

You're not Rambo.

[reverser]

I live in Berkeley and since I can't have a CCW, I just plan on using a hippy as a human shield. I mean, two birds, one stone.

[Rickrock1]

I live in Berkeley and since I can't have a CCW, I just plan on using a hippy as a human shield. I mean, two birds, one stone.

Hahaha is the hippie the same as a tree hugger or a lEftist