Need help explaining guns to girlfriend

[faris1984]

This a lot of effort for a woman you aren't married to...


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+1.

[Tommy C]

No. Her mother is from upstate New York and her father is from somewhere in the midwest. She was born and raised in northwest Washington, which is where I live now.

Wow, I'm surprised. There are a lot of pro-gun folks in upstate NY. NYC is another story....

[Wordupmybrotha]

"Trip to my favorite gun range" sounds nice, but personally, I prefer a chat at a coffee/tea shop. I'm altering my profiles to state that shooting is one of my hobbies. On one is "I legally own firearms and have a permit to carry one when I'm out and about. If you don't like firearms, we probably won't work out.".

When I read that, I picture this:

I agree George Zimmerman is the perfect example of why we should carry. When Trayvon Martin was bashing his head against the sidewalk in an attempt to kill him his gun saved his life.

Massad Ayoob's take on the case is here: http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob143.html

I see what you did there.

I'm going to go out on the limb and say that all of us on this forum support the right to carry. My suggestion is to re-word the profile so it doesn't sound so creepy. Yes, I believe Zimmerman was legal, but he's still a weirdo. But let's not hijack this thread to debate that.

Instead of this:
"I legally own firearms and have a permit to carry one when I'm out and about. If you don't like firearms, we probably won't work out.".

I suggest this:
"I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment and as your man, I will protect you and keep you safe."

What does that convey? Strength and chivalry. What does it not convey? Creepiness.

[Intimid8tor]

Just walk!

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[mosinnagantm9130]

This train wreck is still going?

[Wordupmybrotha]

Gotta help a brother out

[jrpowell3]

Seriously, I'm interested in the outcome. OP, you really should just ditch this chick and move on.

EDIT: Also, I'd recommend not shooting your balls off while pocket carrying that revolver.

[NorCalFocus]

Need help explaining guns to girlfriend

This thread should be stickied.

OP the other thing I can't wrap my head around is it sounds like you've not been dating this girl long. Yet she's telling you how it's going to be when your married?


Just do all of us a solid and record the break up. Just for the lols.

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[POLICESTATE]

Guns are cheaper than girlfriends.

[galaxius]

Blowbacks before hoebacks.

[faris1984]

Seriously, I'm interested in the outcome. OP, you really should just ditch this chick and move on.

EDIT: Also, I'd recommend not shooting your balls off while pocket carrying that revolver.

Same here.I hope gun owners win.

[Socalmp5]

You sir have an ex gf

[Frotz]

Second draft:
(I write my stuff in LaTeX. The markup I left here should be easily understandable.)

\section{Foundation and History}

The subject of firearms is a highly emotional political hotbed issue for those not familiar with guns or the actual, verifiable statistics regarding violence committed using guns and those politically motivated people intent on attaining power and control over our populace,
particularly when firearms are owned and carried by people who aren't members of the military or law enforcement. I own firearms. I bought them legally. I am not a member of the military nor am I in law enforcement. Yet I own firearms. I continue to own them legally as I am not a criminal nor a mental defective. I have a permit, issued by the state of my residence, which allows me to legally carry a concealed firearm upon my person. I have also received training in the use of firearms, care of the same, and in the legal and political ramifications thereof.

I do not readily disclose the fact I own firearms or know about them because to do so is politically incorrect these days. Being too free about such personal information, in many cases, has lead to ostracization, groundless accusations, discrimination, hostility, and
violence, and firearm theft. People have lost their families, jobs, fortunes, and lives because of this. Why then, would I cast my lot in with them? I do so because the ownership, carrying, and use of firearms is a basic right of intelligent and free beings. Ultimately it is up to myself to ensure my safety and the safety of my family. The police
cannot do it\footnote{Warren v District of Columbia, Town of Castle Rock v Gonzales. The police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to any individual.}. The most they can be depended upon is to examine the crime scene and maybe catch the criminal.

Criminals can strike when I am at home or out and about. All of us have the right to be unmolested by them. Laws mean nothing to them. They will use whatever means they deem necessary to achieve their goals. Once someone behaves criminally, there is no rational reason to expect them to simply take what they want and leave. This leads to the
conclusion that ultimately only force will do when repelling a criminal attack. A fight with a criminal is not fair. The victim should never feel the need to fight fair. The goal is to survive. Frequently all a victim needs to do is threaten to use a weapon or show it to scare off an attacker.\footnote{Timothy Lytton, ``Suing the Gun Industry: A Battle at the Crossroads of Gun Control and Mass Torts (Law, Meaning, and Violence), pp 68} Sometimes an attacker will ignore warnings and continue. If that happens, then something else must be done. Run? Is that doable? Frequently it's not. Fight the criminal hand-to-hand? Most people don't make a hobby out of that, so they're probably not going to fare well. Suppose you were confronted by a thickly-muscled recidivist criminal thug, who practiced how to beat up people, attempts to attack you? Can you fight him off? Or would you just curl into a ball and accept whatever he might do to you? Taser? Those aren't terribly effective. Firearms remain the most effective deterrent of
violent attacks.

Maybe a society can completely ban firearms and restrict them only to military and law enforcement personnel. The justification for this being that only military and law enforcement personnel are trained and skilled enough to use firearms responsible. How can this be when firearms training is easily available. Never mind that military personal often go back to being civilians and retain their training. Never mind that criminals will simply disregard these laws. That genie cannot be put back into its bottle. At least in the United States, banning guns is more likely to encourage violent crime because law-abiding and honest citizens will effectively be unable to resist. Furthermore, according to most scholars familiar with gun laws, such an action is likely to cause a civil war. Most gun owners will not stand for such a thing. In the United States we have a long tradition of
rebellion against perceived abuses by government. It's how our country began.


\section{Objections}

Here are some of the most common objections to the ownership and carrying of firearms:

\begin{itemize}
\item\textbf{What gives you the right to decide who lives and who dies?}\\
Natural law, the philosophical basis for Western law, numerous religious texts. Take your pick. They all agree that defense of oneself with deadly force is a fundamental right. I don't choose who dies. I choose that I and my family live. If that means the death of a criminal attempting to kill or inflict great bodily injury on us, so be it.

\item\textbf{Can you really handle potentially taking someone's life?}\\
This is not a simple yes/no question to be taken lightly. Some people can't handle it. Those people should not carry arms. I have spent a long time going over this question repeatedly. If I am forced to kill or be killed, I know that I can act quickly. I have studied what other people have gone through after taking a life. I don't know exactly how I will be affected, but I am willing to accept that.

\item\textbf{I'm afraid that if someone is carrying a gun, it might
accidentally go off.}\\
Guns don't accidentally go off. Stupid people doing stupid things, sometimes causing a negligent discharge of their firearms. I'm not stupid. If I slip and fall while carrying a gun, as long as my finger isn't in the trigger guard, a gun has a statistically insignificant chance of firing. The basic ideas and theory of gun design haven't changed in more than a hundred years. Early guns would go off when dropped. If a modern gun does that, they're quickly recalled by their manufacturer and repaired or replaced.

\item\textbf{A gun is 43 times more likely to kill or hurt someone close
to you.}\\
This is a reference to a study done in 1986 in Seattle, Washington by Arthur Kellerman. It was quickly exposed as a fraud. Checking Google with ``Kellerman 43 times'' without the quotes will yield much information on how and why the fraud was perpetrated.

\item\textbf{Only the police and military should have guns.}\\
Numerous courts have determined that that the police are not obligated to protect you, me, or any other individual. Google ``Warren v District of Columbia''. It's not a pretty story. Read it twice to make it sink in. History has also shown that if only the police and military have guns, the chance that tyranny will escalate is increased. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler come immediately to mind.

\item\textbf{A criminal will just take it away and use it against you.}\\
Maybe if I confronted a criminal who was trained in disarming opponents. Most bad guys are not so trained. But it is something to consider. This is why there are classes in retaining one's weapon in such situations. If you don't have the willpower to take the life of an attacker, then yes, a criminal can easily take a gun away from you. I am not such a person.

\item\textbf{Are you that worried about being attacked?}\\
I'm not looking to get into a gunfight any more than carrying a spare tire in my car means I'm cruising to get a flat. Nor am I aching to put out a fire because I have a fire extinguisher in my car and home. I do these things because they are inexpensive and easy preventative measures that I hope I never have to use. I might never need them, but if I do, it's much better to have them than not. The costs of preparing are very minor compared to being caught unprepared.

\end{itemize}


\section{Supporting Information}

Here are some other resources that should help explain my position on
firearms:

\begin{itemize}

\item\url{https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sEYGcXSmpQ}\\
Dr Susan Gratia-Hupp was a survivor of the 1991 mass shooting in Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas. In this video she testifies in favor of loosening restrictions on concealed handguns as she recounts how on that day she decided not to put a handgun into her purse.

\item\url{https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptCtNW5yI7c}\\
Dr Gary Kleck, a widely recognized criminologist talks about how he
stopped being anti-gun. Includes commentary on defensive gun uses that don't involve firing the gun.

\item\url{http://www.corneredcat.com/article/why-a-gun/why-i-carry-a-gun/}\\
A woman talks about why she carries a concealed firearm all the time.

\item\url{http://blog.beretta.com/12-reasons-to-concealed-carry}\\
A slightly humorous, but still valid list of reasons to carry a concealed firearm.

\item\url{http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/}\\
Numerous facts and myths about concealed carry with references. The whole webpage is full of documented and verified facts on many other gun-related topics.

\end{itemize}


\section{Conclusions}

I own and carry firearms for the defense of myself, my family, and whoever happens to be nearby. I am not afraid to defend myself and others should the need arise. I hope this article has been enlightening. Please feel free to ask me any other questions you may have.

[Sleighter]

There are some spelling and grammar errors, but nothing that really detracts from the message you're trying to communicate. The chances of this actually causing a change of mind are minuscule at best, but you already know that. So I hope that somehow writing this down has helped you somehow OP, because otherwise I'm afraid it's a gigantic waste of time. Good luck.

Also, here's some unsolicited advice. Please, PLEASE don't marry this girl. If you do you will regret it, or if you're lucky you will come to resent her and eventually divorce her or live a miserable life. Those are the best case scenarios.

[Frotz]

There are some spelling and grammar errors, but nothing that really detracts from the message you're trying to communicate. The chances of this actually causing a change of mind are minuscule at best, but you already know that. So I hope that somehow writing this down has helped you somehow OP, because otherwise I'm afraid it's a gigantic waste of time. Good luck.

Also, here's some unsolicited advice. Please, PLEASE don't marry this girl. If you do you will regret it, or if you're lucky you will come to resent her and eventually divorce her or live a miserable life. Those are the best case scenarios.

At this point, this essay is an intellectual exercise. I've pretty much made my decision to break up.