Remember When "Sweden Had It Right?"

[SanDiego619]

Hey I still don't care about covid.

[duenor]

Every country in Europe looks like that today, if not worse. If your point was to be meaningless you succeeded.

Which means that Sweden took a huge hit on the chin for nothing. The whole "ripping off the bandaid" cost 7,000 lives in a nation of only 10 million - for what? Remember how a number of people here were saying that Sweden took the hit and got themselves into herd immunity?

Belgium is 119. Netherlands is 49

The nations I chose are the ones that border Sweden. Speaking of cherry picking, what was your rationale for choosing Belgium and the Netherlands, two nations that border each other and are two nations & 200+ miles away from Sweden? To get to the netherlands from Sweden, you'd have to first cross denmark, and then germany.

[duenor]

There are certain advantages having an FFL 07. Unfortunately, you still have to deal with the occasional ignoramus who walks in, convinced that he's quite clever and feeling very pleased with himself.

[bigbossman]

The whole "ripping off the bandaid" cost 7,000 lives in a nation of only 10 million - for what?

That can only be a true statement if you can PROVE that by going "the other way" those 7,000 would not have died.

You cannot know that.

[SAN compnerd]

Which means that Sweden took a huge hit on the chin for nothing. The whole "ripping off the bandaid" cost 7,000 lives in a nation of only 10 million - for what? Remember how a number of people here were saying that Sweden took the hit and got themselves into herd immunity?

Yet virtually all the other nations of Europe had nation wide lock downs and still fared no better, and some far worse. Lot's of evidence that lock downs don't help, and you're looking at some now.

The nations I chose are the ones that border Sweden. Speaking of cherry picking, what was your rationale for choosing Belgium and the Netherlands, two nations that border each other and are two nations & 200+ miles away from Sweden? To get to the netherlands from Sweden, you'd have to first cross denmark, and then germany.

I chose them as they are more representative of what happened in the rest of Europe, and they are farther north/closer to Sweden.

You'd have to cross Germany, then Denmark, but I won't deduct points for lack of geographical knowledge.

[duenor]

I chose them as they are more representative of what happened in the rest of Europe, and they are farther north/closer to Sweden.

You'd have to cross Germany, then Denmark, but I won't deduct points for lack of geographical knowledge.

[Den60]

Anyone who believes Rand Paul's (opthalmologist who lost his certification many years ago) crap about 20% herd immunity needs to get their heads out of the sand, or at least stop telling other people to do join them in denial.

Which medical school did you graduate from?

You are also deliberately misrepresenting the "lost his certification many years ago." He originally was certified under the ABO but created his own board, NBO, with 200 other doctors who did not like changes in the certification process at the ABO. The NOB is no longer around so he doesn't have active certification but that is not a requirement to practice in Kentucky:

3. His ophthalmology certification is contested. He originally earned board certification in 1993 after the completion of his residency. However, in 1997 he formed his own board, called the National Ophthalmology Board, with 200 other physicians in protest of certification requirement changes by the American Board of Ophthalmologists. The now-defunct board was not recognized by the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure, so Dr. Paul was not board certified by a board recognized by the state since 2005, and since Dr. Paul's board dissolved in 2011, he has had no certification from an active body, according to the Washington Post. Kentucky state law does not require board certification for licensure.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-management-administration/10-things-to-know-about-rand-paul-s-medical-career-healthcare-views.html

[Den60]

Using deaths per 100K, Sweden seems to be doing better than many states in the US, those run by liberals with pretty strict government mandates like NY 175, NJ 188, CT 133, IL 86, MI 83, RI 118, DE 75, MD 71, PN 73 etc and seems to be holding its own with CA 46, NV 62 & MN 51.

How do explain that, doctor?

[duenor]

Using deaths per 100K, Sweden seems to be doing better than many states in the US, those run by liberals with pretty strict government mandates like NY 175, NJ 188, CT 133, IL 86, MI 83, RI 118, DE 75, MD 71, PN 73 etc and seems to be holding its own with CA 46, NV 62 & MN 51.

How do explain that, doctor?

You're picking the nation with arguably one of the absolute worst responses to SARS COV 2 in the world. Our death rate per 100k is 74.2, which is almost as low as the powerful and wealthy nations of Italy, Panama, and Columbia. "Run by liberals" suggests that states have powers equal to those of nations, and that is simply not true.

Point isn't that we need to shut everything down and hide in our homes. The point is that Sweden has demonstrated that herd immunity at 20% is a fantasy, and that "ripping the bandaid off" hasn't gotten them faring any better than in spite of the massive differences in the numbers of dead and injured compared to Sweden's neighboring nations.

So for everyone who has been pointing at Sweden and saying that we should actively spread the virus so that we can "get it over with", Sweden is demonstrating that in all likelihood you'll simply have a whole lot of dead for nothing - unless, of course, you are truly willing to kick the stupid up to 10 and just keep letting people get sick and die until there is only the young and healthy standing - between 1.4 to 6 million depending on how long our health care system can hold out. It's one of the world's best systems in terms of COVID19 survival, but there comes a point when the system is oversaturated and then you have "standards of care" choices to be made - ie., death panels.

[bigbossman]

You are also deliberately misrepresenting the "lost his certification many years ago."

At this point, does that really surprise anyone?

[SW1917]

Sweden is still right.

"Cases" are irrelevant due to the deliberate misrepresentation of the data and definitions. It is purely political. My only surprize is that Biden is doubling down on terrorizing the citizenry. I thought he would declare victory on the virus when Trump was defeated.

Deaths of young healthy people do matter. There are virtually none of those. Deaths are concentrated on old people who are in the process of dying from other causes. Polio for instance, was a real tragedy and something to be feared. As viruses go this one is pretty "fair".

We're all dying - at what age does their death not matter? 25% of the workforce is over 60

[Den60]

You're picking the nation with arguably one of the absolute worst responses to SARS COV 2 in the world. Our death rate per 100k is 74.2, which is almost as low as the powerful and wealthy nations of Italy, Panama, and Columbia. "Run by liberals" suggests that states have powers equal to those of nations, and that is simply not true.

Point isn't that we need to shut everything down and hide in our homes. The point is that Sweden has demonstrated that herd immunity at 20% is a fantasy, and that "ripping the bandaid off" hasn't gotten them faring any better than in spite of the massive differences in the numbers of dead and injured compared to Sweden's neighboring nations.

So for everyone who has been pointing at Sweden and saying that we should actively spread the virus so that we can "get it over with", Sweden is demonstrating that in all likelihood you'll simply have a whole lot of dead for nothing - unless, of course, you are truly willing to kick the stupid up to 10 and just keep letting people get sick and die until there is only the young and healthy standing - between 1.4 to 6 million depending on how long our health care system can hold out. It's one of the world's best systems in terms of COVID19 survival, but there comes a point when the system is oversaturated and then you have "standards of care" choices to be made - ie., death panels.

First of all, I believe our COVID statistics are vastly over-reported but when you compare you need to make sure every country is using the same standard. That isn't happening and anyone with an ounce of intelligence says you can't compare apples to oranges. We also test more than any other nation on Earth so we will have more positive results as well - being the third largest country by population means we should see about the third largest rate of infection. If we keep counting all deaths with COVID as being deaths from COVID then we might see your numbers in a few years. I expect, though, that we will stop that should Biden assume the Presidency. Kind of like how the homeless disappear from the news when there is a Dem in office.

Also, those South and Central Americans you speak about with their bad numbers have just gone through a whole winter during this COVID "pandemic." You realize that in the Southern Hemisphere winter is during our summer, right? Now that we are into fall we are being told, by the same people who said warm weather would have little to no effect of the spread of the virus as summer approached, that we will now have a huge spread because "winter is coming." Really? How can you and yours have it both ways and somehow do it with a straight fate.? Sweden has done better than many other EU countries such as the UK, Spain, Italy and France.

Our "nation" is governed by the states, the responses to this virus are governed by the states which is why Dementia Joe is backing off a national mandate for masks. You blame some lacking national response by Trump which is just not valid. I pointed out states run by liberals where we have a high death per capita rate than Sweden, the worst being NJ and NY. Even California, which has done everything you liberals want to do when it comes to crushing our civil rights isn't much worse off than Sweden. I ask you why and you come back with BS. Have you not paid attention of what is happening here or are you being deliberately ignorant? I leave for a golf trip on Tuesday and come back to San Diego where we again lock down based on some parameters that some bureaucrat pulled out of his ***. Now Fauci, becoming ever more dictatorial now that Biden has said he will give full power to him and has like as to what this country must do, tells us we need to "do what we are told." F him. I will not comply with his "orders."

As I said before, everyone is going to get this. My former doctor said it and he was a bright guy. You can't keep from getting it. All you can do is delay everyone getting it. But people are dying less from it, and it never was all that bad unless you were old with at least 2.6 other comorbidities.

Sweden isn't any worse than other countries and without worldwide standardized reporting we will never know which country is doing well and which isn't. I can tell you, of course you won't believe it because you hate Trump, that China has to have the worst numbers and what they are reporting is laughable. And they can do the kind of things you want, lock people up, kill them if they become a problem, just to keep the spread down.

Biden says he will fix the problems Trump has caused with this. Tell me how? I would like to know what he, or anybody, can do to stop this. Hell, I would even like to know if you actually have a plan or if you just like to beeyotch. Should we shut down everything for 6 weeks. I... mean... EVERYTHING? Biden has the IQ of a coconut and that was before dementia got to him. Expecting him to lead us through this is just a fool's errand.

Oh, when you put Rand Paul down I asked you what medical school you graduated from. You must have missed that because you didn't respond. Answer the question, please.

[five.five-six]

Negative Commited to buy gun, never returned PM's

Negative Warning - Reengaged on deal. Strung me along then stopped answering pm’s.

[anthonyca]

Remember when we could trust government and mainstream media for accurate information? Me neither...

Ya, me either.

People need to calm down. China has no more deaths. Someone is lying here.

[balgor]

Ah man not another Sweden thread. I hate Sweden threads. Results from Sweden are not generalizable outside of other Scandinavian countries, end of story. Look up statistical generalizability people.