Progressive Reloaders ?

[billt]

Great info. Would it be possible if I got a 9000 to turn off the auto indexing in the beginning ?

I'm not sure, as I've never run a 9000. Most auto index presses can be used manually. I'm guessing the 9000 incorporates a way to disengage it. Auto indexing doesn't really add much speed, because they all require you to stop and fill powder, shot, and replenish the primer supply.

And you also will want to take a break once in a while. So when you factor all of that into the mix, the auto indexing becomes less important as a direct time saver. You can run a manual index machine quite briskly once you develop a rhythm.

[littlewing6283]

Yes, very simple to do.
Unhook 1 spring and remove 1 part, it takes about 30 seconds or less.

[BOBGBA]

The auto indexing on the 9000 saves you 2 manual steps every pull.
It rotates the carrier (which holds the hulls) and kicks out a finished shell, which then goes down a ramp into whatever container you use.

[ceh383]

To give you an idea of how long it takes to go manual indexing, I just timed the process. Keep in mind my machine is sitting on the floor in a poor position.

It took me 13.36 seconds, that's including starting/stopping the clock.

[ceh383]

The auto indexing on the 9000 saves you 2 manual steps every pull.
It rotates the carrier (which holds the hulls) and kicks out a finished shell, which then goes down a ramp into whatever container you use.

Yes, but that is really only one step. When you manually rotate the carrier it will still kick out the finished shell.

[Tom-ADC]

Can't you just do one shell at a time until you feel you are good to go?

[beetle]

I pretty much have owned all of the progressive presses out there. Some I bought for myself, while others I inherited from my uncle. I spent a lot of time tearing them down, cleaning / rebuilding, and generally understanding how they work. I sold off some of them, but still own a Spolar, Mec 9000, and Hornady 366. I returned a Dillon SL900 and sold off a PW800, Grand, and a bunch of singles stage machines.

Here is my take on some of them:

1) MEC 9000 - I ended up keeping this one, because it has the automate unit. That's one of the advantages -- if you ever want to add some kind of power to it, the 9000 is by far the easiest to do so. Instead of fussing with hydraulics, etc MEC sells the automate unit. It's also great if you need to move the unit from place to place, as the automate unit serves as the base for the press and does not require bolting into a bench.

MEC 9000
The 9000 is similar to all of MECs other machines in that it is made from pressed steel. Obviously this makes for a less expensive press, but it also means that pieces can bend pretty easily. The MEC has an advantage in that there are a LOT of people familiar with the press so it is pretty easy to get help. I have managed to bend a part or two, and I was able to either bend them back myself or get replacements pretty cheap.

The MEC has a superior resizing system. It uses a collet resizer. While it is a little more complex and requires some maintenance, in terms of use it makes for a much easier resize -- easier in that it would be easier to pull the handle then in presses that use a ring resizer.

If you have used other progressive presses in the past (whether shotgun or metallic) the operation of the MEC will seem a little crazy. It's been described as a "Rube Goldberg Machine" -- in other words the operation is overly complex. This lever, pushes up on that part, which turns this thing, in which a knob presses against that... etc. But I have admit, the whole thing works and is reliable for the most part.

The MEC normally uses a bushing system for shot and powder. MEC uses it's own style of bushings and they are relatively inexpensive. However there is also an adjustable bar available for the MEC which I have found to work pretty well (reviews are mixed). The MEC also has a somewhat klunky shot lock / powder lock which in theory is supposed to prevent shot / powder from being dropped unless a hull is in place. the two are tied to together, If you have dropped powder the press will assume that the next pull will drop shot. This makes it more complicated when trying to check powder drops.

The wad system on a MEC is rather limited. The wad guide is fixed in place and has just enough clearance. It's fine for 1 oz or greater loads. However, if loading 7/8 or 3/4 loads some wads are a challenge (the wad is too long to fit into the wad guide). There are some hacks out there to cut away part of the wad guide to make more clearance.

For me one of the most important thing I care about in a shotgun press is the ease of making adjustments. That's because I like to experiment with different components, different powders, etc. On a scale of 1-10, I'd put the adjustability of the MEC at around 6 -- in other words it's not too easy to adjust.

I've kept the MEC because I use to kick out my "standard" load. I don't adjust it and use it to make the load I shoot in competitions. With the automate I can make a box very quickly.

Hornady 366
this is one that I inherited from my uncle. I keep it because it is a .410 model, but I'm sure my comments would apply to the 12g model as well. I'm pretty sure the 366 is an older design -- Hornady bought it from Pacific way back.

There are a couple of drawbacks to this old design. First, the resizing is done outside of the progressive part of the press. It also requires you to "align" the hull with the resizer. this greatly slows down production.

My biggest complaint about the 366 is that once a hull has entered into the progressive part, you cannot remove it from the line without disassembling the shell plate. So if you have a problem with one of the shells you have to unscrew the shell plate and carefully take out all of the shells in various stages of production. This makes it hard to get running initially if you want to drop powder and measure it.

The 366 uses a bushing system for shot / powder. Hornady bushings are the de-facto standard for most shotgun presses. For example, Spolar uses Hornady bushings. PW / RCBS Grand also use the same sized bushings although they make their own.

It is rather difficult to change the bushings on a 366 -- there is no shot / powder dump mechanism. So you kind of have to carefully invert the whole assembly to dump shot / powder before you can change the bushing. Kind of a pain when first trying to get a good setup.

The wad system on a 366 is pretty good. it has a rotating wad guide that gives plenty of clearance for tall wads.

Adjustability is not bad on the 366. You can get to most stations rather easily. On a scale of 1-10, I'd put adjustability at 7.

Overall a decent machine, but shows it's aged design. I wouldn't buy a 366 new --- some of the newer designs are easier to work with.

Dillon SL900
I wanted to really like the SL900, but ended up returning it. The SL900 is dillon's attempt at building a shotgun press, but they recycled the frame from a XL650. This unfortunately leads to most of the the disadvantages of the SL900.

The SL900 is unique in that it comes with an automated hull feeder. Production can be super fast as you can just keep one hand on the handle and the other feeding wads in. for the other presses you need to do three operations -- feed hull in, feed wad in, pull handle.

The biggest advantage of the SL900 is that it doesn't use bushings for shot / powder measurements. Instead it uses dillon excellent powder measure from the metallic loaders. The press also will not drop shot / powder unless a hull is in place.

So this press sounds great right? Unfortunately it also has some huge drawbacks. The biggest one being adjustability. It's terrible. In many cases the tool head is so tight that you can't get the necessary tools in place to make adjustments. In other cases you have to remove some parts in order to access the adjustment mechanism. So if you like to load up different components, forget this machine.

One major issue is that Dillon has messed up the wad guide arm. They have told me this on more than one occasion when I called in for help. The current version of the arm is too short and will not load Remington hulls reliably (the top of the hull hits the wad guide). There is a simple fix -- either remove a pin to allow more travel or insert a O-ring to raise the wad guide. But it's annoying to have to do this to a new machine or have Dillon tell you to "just use Winchester AA's"

On a scale of 1-10 adjustability is like a 3.

Spolar (PW 800)
I'll put PW into the same review as they are very similar machines (and I'm running out of time fussing around on cal guns this morning). Think of the Spolar as being the high end version of the PW 800.

The Spolar is the machine I ended up keeping (when I was buying machines for myself). It's expensive, but after fussing with a lot of different machines this one was the most reliable and easiest to adjust.

The advantage of the spolar is that it is built around a very wide shell plate. There is a lot of room around each station -- adjustments are super fast and simple. This is my favorite feature of the spolar, it's so easy to make adjustments that I can easily tinker to get perfect looking shells (let's adjust that pre-crimp by 1/8 of a turn). On other machine's I wouldn't bother because it's a pain to make that adjustment easily.

So adjustability I give it a 10.

The spolar uses a bushing system -- in fact it uses Hornady bushings. What's nice is that the spolar has a shot/powder shut off in which the hoppers are moved to the left, allowing you to change bushings without draining the press or disassembly.

The primer system is reliable but can annoy folks. The spolar uses a vibrator to shake primers into the primer tract. Which means that every time you pull the handle the vibrator will buzz. There is a modification which i've done to lower the voltage of the vibrator which now is MUCH quieter. Once the primer is in the tract it works great. In fact one very nice feature of the spolar primer system is that it will only load a primer if needed (in other words, if a primer is already in the loading post it will not attempt to load another). Other presses typically jam up if a primer is already present and the press is operated (trying to put two primers on the post).

Overall I like this machine. I would probably summarize it this way -- if you are on a budget then I would probably recommend the MEC. If you want the best, then I would recommend the Spolar/PW.

[BOBGBA]

Can't you just do one shell at a time until you feel you are good to go?

In order to not have to mess with removing the powder & shot bottles, here's what I do.
I keep the powder/shot tilted back until I'm ready to seat the primer and drop the powder. When I'm at that stage I insert an empty hull (that still has the primer in it) in the shot drop station, to keep the shot from spilling.
If you do one shell at a time, you would have to do this and remember to put an empty hull in the powder drop station to catch the powder, when you are dropping the shot.

How do you guys do it? Is there a better process?

[ceh383]

In order to not have to mess with removing the powder & shot bottles, here's what I do.
I keep the powder/shot tilted back until I'm ready to seat the primer and drop the powder. When I'm at that stage I insert an empty hull (that still has the primer in it) in the shot drop station, to keep the shot from spilling.
If you do one shell at a time, you would have to do this and remember to put an empty hull in the powder drop station to catch the powder, when you are dropping the shot.

How do you guys do it? Is there a better process?

Pretty much what I do, but the empty hulls I use are a different color. Easy to see so I don't complete the cycle with them.

[littlewing6283]

Can't you just do one shell at a time until you feel you are good to go?

I think so except the powder drop and shot drop. I believe they will drop at every pull on the 9000. I think station 2 the powder drop needs a hull in the station to drop. Still need to do more research

I think the Dillon will not drop unless there is a hill there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[littlewing6283]

I pretty much have owned all of the progressive presses out there. Some I bought for myself, while others I inherited from my uncle. I spent a lot of time tearing them down, cleaning / rebuilding, and generally understanding how they work. I sold off some of them, but still own a Spolar, Mec 9000, and Hornady 366. I returned a Dillon SL900 and sold off a PW800, Grand, and a bunch of singles stage machines.

Here is my take on some of them:

1) MEC 9000 - I ended up keeping this one, because it has the automate unit. That's one of the advantages -- if you ever want to add some kind of power to it, the 9000 is by far the easiest to do so. Instead of fussing with hydraulics, etc MEC sells the automate unit. It's also great if you need to move the unit from place to place, as the automate unit serves as the base for the press and does not require bolting into a bench.

MEC 9000
The 9000 is similar to all of MECs other machines in that it is made from pressed steel. Obviously this makes for a less expensive press, but it also means that pieces can bend pretty easily. The MEC has an advantage in that there are a LOT of people familiar with the press so it is pretty easy to get help. I have managed to bend a part or two, and I was able to either bend them back myself or get replacements pretty cheap.

The MEC has a superior resizing system. It uses a collet resizer. While it is a little more complex and requires some maintenance, in terms of use it makes for a much easier resize -- easier in that it would be easier to pull the handle then in presses that use a ring resizer.

If you have used other progressive presses in the past (whether shotgun or metallic) the operation of the MEC will seem a little crazy. It's been described as a "Rube Goldberg Machine" -- in other words the operation is overly complex. This lever, pushes up on that part, which turns this thing, in which a knob presses against that... etc. But I have admit, the whole thing works and is reliable for the most part.

The MEC normally uses a bushing system for shot and powder. MEC uses it's own style of bushings and they are relatively inexpensive. However there is also an adjustable bar available for the MEC which I have found to work pretty well (reviews are mixed). The MEC also has a somewhat klunky shot lock / powder lock which in theory is supposed to prevent shot / powder from being dropped unless a hull is in place. the two are tied to together, If you have dropped powder the press will assume that the next pull will drop shot. This makes it more complicated when trying to check powder drops.

The wad system on a MEC is rather limited. The wad guide is fixed in place and has just enough clearance. It's fine for 1 oz or greater loads. However, if loading 7/8 or 3/4 loads some wads are a challenge (the wad is too long to fit into the wad guide). There are some hacks out there to cut away part of the wad guide to make more clearance.

For me one of the most important thing I care about in a shotgun press is the ease of making adjustments. That's because I like to experiment with different components, different powders, etc. On a scale of 1-10, I'd put the adjustability of the MEC at around 6 -- in other words it's not too easy to adjust.

I've kept the MEC because I use to kick out my "standard" load. I don't adjust it and use it to make the load I shoot in competitions. With the automate I can make a box very quickly.

Hornady 366
this is one that I inherited from my uncle. I keep it because it is a .410 model, but I'm sure my comments would apply to the 12g model as well. I'm pretty sure the 366 is an older design -- Hornady bought it from Pacific way back.

There are a couple of drawbacks to this old design. First, the resizing is done outside of the progressive part of the press. It also requires you to "align" the hull with the resizer. this greatly slows down production.

My biggest complaint about the 366 is that once a hull has entered into the progressive part, you cannot remove it from the line without disassembling the shell plate. So if you have a problem with one of the shells you have to unscrew the shell plate and carefully take out all of the shells in various stages of production. This makes it hard to get running initially if you want to drop powder and measure it.

The 366 uses a bushing system for shot / powder. Hornady bushings are the de-facto standard for most shotgun presses. For example, Spolar uses Hornady bushings. PW / RCBS Grand also use the same sized bushings although they make their own.

It is rather difficult to change the bushings on a 366 -- there is no shot / powder dump mechanism. So you kind of have to carefully invert the whole assembly to dump shot / powder before you can change the bushing. Kind of a pain when first trying to get a good setup.

The wad system on a 366 is pretty good. it has a rotating wad guide that gives plenty of clearance for tall wads.

Adjustability is not bad on the 366. You can get to most stations rather easily. On a scale of 1-10, I'd put adjustability at 7.

Overall a decent machine, but shows it's aged design. I wouldn't buy a 366 new --- some of the newer designs are easier to work with.

Dillon SL900
I wanted to really like the SL900, but ended up returning it. The SL900 is dillon's attempt at building a shotgun press, but they recycled the frame from a XL650. This unfortunately leads to most of the the disadvantages of the SL900.

The SL900 is unique in that it comes with an automated hull feeder. Production can be super fast as you can just keep one hand on the handle and the other feeding wads in. for the other presses you need to do three operations -- feed hull in, feed wad in, pull handle.

The biggest advantage of the SL900 is that it doesn't use bushings for shot / powder measurements. Instead it uses dillon excellent powder measure from the metallic loaders. The press also will not drop shot / powder unless a hull is in place.

So this press sounds great right? Unfortunately it also has some huge drawbacks. The biggest one being adjustability. It's terrible. In many cases the tool head is so tight that you can't get the necessary tools in place to make adjustments. In other cases you have to remove some parts in order to access the adjustment mechanism. So if you like to load up different components, forget this machine.

One major issue is that Dillon has messed up the wad guide arm. They have told me this on more than one occasion when I called in for help. The current version of the arm is too short and will not load Remington hulls reliably (the top of the hull hits the wad guide). There is a simple fix -- either remove a pin to allow more travel or insert a O-ring to raise the wad guide. But it's annoying to have to do this to a new machine or have Dillon tell you to "just use Winchester AA's"

On a scale of 1-10 adjustability is like a 3.

Spolar (PW 800)
I'll put PW into the same review as they are very similar machines (and I'm running out of time fussing around on cal guns this morning). Think of the Spolar as being the high end version of the PW 800.

The Spolar is the machine I ended up keeping (when I was buying machines for myself). It's expensive, but after fussing with a lot of different machines this one was the most reliable and easiest to adjust.

The advantage of the spolar is that it is built around a very wide shell plate. There is a lot of room around each station -- adjustments are super fast and simple. This is my favorite feature of the spolar, it's so easy to make adjustments that I can easily tinker to get perfect looking shells (let's adjust that pre-crimp by 1/8 of a turn). On other machine's I wouldn't bother because it's a pain to make that adjustment easily.

So adjustability I give it a 10.

The spolar uses a bushing system -- in fact it uses Hornady bushings. What's nice is that the spolar has a shot/powder shut off in which the hoppers are moved to the left, allowing you to change bushings without draining the press or disassembly.

The primer system is reliable but can annoy folks. The spolar uses a vibrator to shake primers into the primer tract. Which means that every time you pull the handle the vibrator will buzz. There is a modification which i've done to lower the voltage of the vibrator which now is MUCH quieter. Once the primer is in the tract it works great. In fact one very nice feature of the spolar primer system is that it will only load a primer if needed (in other words, if a primer is already in the loading post it will not attempt to load another). Other presses typically jam up if a primer is already present and the press is operated (trying to put two primers on the post).

Overall I like this machine. I would probably summarize it this way -- if you are on a budget then I would probably recommend the MEC. If you want the best, then I would recommend the Spolar/PW.

Thank you so much for that comprehensive info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BOBGBA]

Pretty much what I do, but the empty hulls I use are a different color. Easy to see so I don't complete the cycle with them.

I forgot to mention that. I reload Remington hulls (Gun Club (green), STS (green), Nitro 27 (gold)) and use Federal (maroon?) for the empty hulls. Maybe I'll save some Fiocchi (clear) and use those instead of the Federals.

[whutsup40]

so much for keeping a bench clear! lol single bench is my 12 gauge, double bench is 20 gauge on left and 16 on the right, have had this setup for about 3 years!!

[ceh383]

I forgot to mention that. I reload Remington hulls (Gun Club (green), STS (green), Nitro 27 (gold)) and use Federal (maroon?) for the empty hulls. Maybe I'll save some Fiocchi (clear) and use those instead of the Federals.

I have a couple B&P black hulls, so far I just reload Gun Clubs...

[ceh383]

I think so except the powder drop and shot drop. I believe they will drop at every pull on the 9000. I think station 2 the powder drop needs a hull in the station to drop. Still need to do more research

Well, you could lock the charge bar, then neither powder or shot will drop. Otherwise both powder and shot will drop on each pull.
Empty hulls of a different color is the answer, easy to see and control.