Why does my 700 rust like a pig?!

[2shotjoe]

I have an sps varmit with no rust issues. I use frog lube on the outside. Frog lube does seem to work well as a preserver.

I may have done this, its been over a year so I don't remember.

[Jarhead]

Try some oil .........Breakfree

[Wrangler John]

I'm still trying to get past the part where pigs rust.

Has anyone here ever seen a rusty pig? Can a rusty pig be cleaned with Simple Green or do you use Naval Jelly? Are rusty pigs edible or must they be treated first? Do rusty pigs result in pitted ham? Are pigs magnetic? Inquiring minds need to know.

[socal147]

Frog lube does amazing work, I was skeptical because I just thought it was some AR-15 fanboi lube that was used because of military stories.
Has exceeded my expectations.

Found the exact same results with Peanut Butter. Biosafe and it smells great before, during, and after shooting. Absorbs into the "pores and cracks" of the metal. Lots of military stories to back it up.

Peanut Butter ... Great Stuff !


J/K.



Wrangler John, The only way to clean a rusty pig is with Peanut Butter. Everybody knows that ........... LoL

[Wrangler John]

Found the exact same results with Peanut Butter. Biosafe and it smells great before, during, and after shooting. Absorbs into the "pores and cracks" of the metal. Lots of military stories to back it up.

Peanut Butter ... Great Stuff !


J/K.



Wrangler John, The only way to clean a rusty pig is with Peanut Butter. Everybody knows that ........... LoL

Alas, socal147, I was completely ignorant that peanut butter would clean a rusty pig. Then I realized that while I had a partial jar of Skippy in the pantry, finding a rusty pig for a test was going to be difficult. So I broke out my copy of the medieval volume of Arcanum Arcanorum For Dummies, and sure enough there was a formula for treating rusty pigs that included peanut butter. At least I think that was what it referred to, depending on my interpretation of Latin. So I continued my research, surely someone must know for sure. Even the brains over at Mythbusters were stumped, referring me to Michael Moore. I was told if anyone knew anything about rusty pigs he would. I tried repeatedly to contact Michael Moore, but my phone messages, emails and twitters remained unanswered. Maybe he thought I was calling him a rusty pig, but all wanted was to source a rusty pig to coat with peanut butter for a test of its cleaning ability. There is still hope though. I ran into the local Democratic Party coordinator who related that he knew a friend of Hillary Clinton's that had a cousin in Arkansas that owned the Arkansas Pig Iron Foundry. He thought they may have some rusty pigs. I am waiting now for a return call. Let you know as soon as I find out.

[Nyanman]

Idk what's up with remington but ive seen NIB 700s and 870s with surface rust. Gunshop shelves have em with rust on them. Bleck

Remington has been downhill roughly since Cerberus. New guns with all sorts of fit and finish issues along with function problems. Linoge had some photos up of his issues, it wasn't pretty. Some other forum has a comparison between a Remington and a Tikka T3 bore, the Remington was full of scratches and gouges while the Tikka was actually polished smooth, it didn't look like someone shot files instead of bullets through the gun.

[Top Cat]

You really can't blame this rust problem on Remington...

Clean and dry bare carbon steel oxidizes almost immediately when exposed to air if not blued or painted. If you want to Parkerize it it has to go directly from the etching bath to the Park solution, or it will rust so quickly in between that the acid in the bath won't penetrate to the metal due to the rusting that occurs.

So that's the reality you are facing with blued firearms.

A really good high polished blue finish slows down rust pretty well with a light coat of oil, but the shallow black on the matte finish Remys is not nearly as good at resisting oxidation from penetrating to the metal without proper care.

The matte finish doesn't help. A high quality blue job is a couple hundred bucks at least, and Remys get fast dipped and shipped out the door, but with proper care the finish they put on them will do.

The responsibility lies with the owner who needs to make the effort to keep the firearm well cleaned and oiled on every surface before putting it away to prevent rust.

A coat of automotive wax and not worry about fingerprints.

Powder residue absorbs moisture over time and any alkaline residue will rust in the bore, and that is a more serious issue.

This is basic firearms care 101.

I would never put any of my guns away without cleaning and oiling them and as a result, there is not a speck of rust to be found...

If you want a more maintenance free gun go with stainless or get it coated.

But with at least minimum care you won't have a problem.

[thegiff]

Something else to throw out there, most gun safes with fire protection use drywall, which is gypsum, which is 20% moisture when dry. When manufactured, there is typically extra moisture beyond the natural 20% which makes the safe humid until the drywall dries out.

[Nyanman]

You really can't blame this rust problem on Remington...

My 1950's Remington is in absolutely perfect condition and gets cleaned and cared for. The bore isn't ugly, the finish is good, the internals are clean and function, the wood is still beautiful.
I can and will blame Remington as long as they continue to think shipping something like this is acceptable:

I shouldn't even have to go into how amazing the R51 was, but allow me to be an old fart for a bit :
Old Remingtons are good guns. They are well made and well finished, and I would happily recommend one to someone. Now, whatever it was, something changed at Remington and their sales are reliant more on the power of their name. Even a simple internet search reveals some finish problems as well as things like shotgun bores being so unfinished there are noticeable burrs all inside them. Ol' seizure lips did a test of a Remington 700 in .300 Win Mag that had a poor enough chamber the gun had major extraction issues. The rough bore of modern production, things like the picture being allowed past QC and the other recent issues indicate to me Remington just no longer cares to provide that extra step of fit and finish. Chambers with burrs and bores with burrs is to me, unacceptable.
Rumors I've heard from SHOT was that some people from Remington may be breaking off and starting a company to try and bring back old Remington in all but name.
But while Remington can't be bothered to make sure the guns are clean, the bores and chambers clear of burrs and take the time to not leave everything full of machining marks? I'd recommend other guns before a new Remington until they improve.
For the cost of a Remington 700 in .300 Win Mag, you could grab a CZ Ultimate in the same caliber for $160 more. A super basic Tikka T3 is half the cost of the Remington and is built as a primarily hunting rifle, and yet they take the time the polish the barrel and make sure it doesn't have burrs in it. If someone has a lot of money to spend on a rifle a Sako would be better.
The odd thing is, it's not that I don't like Remington, as I do love more than a few of their guns and more than a few of their new guns, it's just that they've seem to lost enough care to go the extra mile or to have good QC, so I will blame them for that until they fix it, and until they do I'd buy other companies items.

[Justintoxicated]

I can't say I clean my R700 every time I put it away, that would make it less accurate.

[-hanko]

You really can't blame this rust problem on Remington...

Really? It was Remington that went from finishing guns with hot-bluing to black oxide. Why??...not to make a better gun, but to lower manufacturing costs.

Clean and dry bare carbon steel oxidizes almost immediately when exposed to air if not blued or painted. If you want to Parkerize it it has to go directly from the etching bath to the Park solution, or it will rust so quickly in between that the acid in the bath won't penetrate to the metal due to the rusting that occurs.

That's why when you parkerize, you're supposed to be quick. Normally, etching is not used...just alox blasting and then immediately into the park bath. Nothing new. OT, have you ever parkerized anything???

So that's the reality you are facing with blued firearms.

No one's speaking about blued guns...we're speaking of Remington's choice to go to black oxide from hot-blued...it's cheaper for them.

A really good high polished blue finish slows down rust pretty well with a light coat of oil, but the shallow black on the matte finish Remys is not nearly as good at resisting oxidation from penetrating to the metal without proper care.

It's far more a matter of black oxide v. hot-blue or park. Black oxide is called for if you want something black, and don't have the time or skill to properly prep and finish the gun. Black oxide pretty much eliminates the need for hand polishing like you'd use to blue a gun...that saves $$$.

The matte finish doesn't help. A high quality blue job is a couple hundred bucks at least, and Remys get fast dipped and shipped out the door, but with proper care the finish they put on them will do.

That might be the cost to have a gunsmith do one gun, but the price drops significantly in a production situation...assuming you have the people who know how to polish...which Remington, apparently, no longer has.

The responsibility lies with the owner who needs to make the effort to keep the firearm well cleaned and oiled on every surface before putting it away to prevent rust.

All things equal, a black oxide finish will rust much faster than a blued or parked gun.

A coat of automotive wax and not worry about fingerprints.

Powder residue absorbs moisture over time and any alkaline residue will rust in the bore, and that is a more serious issue.

This is basic firearms care 101.

I would never put any of my guns away without cleaning and oiling them and as a result, there is not a speck of rust to be found...

The issue brought up in this thread is NOT about maintenance, it's about the finish Remington uses.

If you want a more maintenance free gun go with stainless or get it coated.

Brilliant.

But with at least minimum care you won't have a problem.

Not correct with a black oxide finish.
Great post.

[ar15barrels]

Not correct with a black oxide finish.

It should be mentioned that the finish problems are pretty much only on the low-cost SPS variants because the higher quality/cost guns experience no such problems.

[-hanko]

It should be mentioned that the finish problems are pretty much only on the low-cost SPS variants because the higher quality/cost guns experience no such problems.

Different finish? Better preparation? Anything else??

My Remington's are all blued...no rust issues with normal maintenance.

[ar15barrels]

Different finish? Better preparation? Anything else??

My Remington's are all blued...no rust issues with normal maintenance.

The non-stainless SPS rifles and 870 express shotguns are sandblasted and then black oxided.
There are no problems with the polished/blued guns or the parkerized guns or the stainless guns or the ceracoated guns that Remington sells.

If I had to guess on this, I would say that somewhere along the production lines, they are "grading" the receivers intended to be polished/blued and any that have blemishes or iregularities are kicked out of the polished/blued production line to become SPS guns.
The sandblast finish will cover all sorts of little scratches that would otherwise take a lot more hand-work to clean up into nice polished/blued guns.
I'm also pretty sure that they produce so many SPS guns that they also simply finish first-grade receivers that way to fill production requirements.

[Divernhunter]

The rem rust because they are not a Tikka/Howa/Savage/Weatherby/CZ........