Long Rang Shooting

[thai562]

Save your money and get a good used condition Remington 700 PSS, or 5R in 308 or other 700 with aluminum bedded stock. And a good scope mount and scope.
Don't worry buying high quality used rifle and scope, they are much better than brand new low quality rifle and scope.
And just practice.
The above rifles in 308 can reach out to 800y-1000y, they can grow with you as your skill improve without any additional cost.
Maybe buy better ammo later, or start reloading.

[GJC]

So you're not that experienced, ok no prob. Get a .22 rifle (Marlin, Ruger or similar). Buy 1000 rounds of ammo, then attend the next Appleseed clinic in your area.

Don't bother spending $1000+ on a decent long range setup until you know the fundamentals of marksmanship.

And trust me, you will LOVE Appleseed!

[CSACANNONEER]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I will start off with a 22LR with a really nice scope and see how I do. Thanks again

Don't forget to buy quality ammo. With cheaper .22lr ammo, you'll never know if that flyer was you or the ammo. Look for Wolf Match, Eley, SKS, CCI Green Label, etc. CCI mini mags or anything that costs less than that isn't going to give you the precision you'll need to help you learn.

[BillyGoatMachine]

Don't forget to buy quality ammo. With cheaper .22lr ammo, you'll never know if that flyer was you or the ammo. Look for Wolf Match, Eley, SKS, CCI Green Label, etc. CCI mini mags or anything that costs less than that isn't going to give you the precision you'll need to help you learn.

Agree tremendously^^^^
Lapua centerX has worked the best out of all my .22's at distance. The wolf match is great as well, but opens up a bit at over 100y. The Lapua is much more consistent. Green tag used to be my go to distance round but was discontinued.

[CobraRed]

To the poster who shot 22's for several years before going to longrange.
If your buddy took a new shooter out and spent a day with him and he couldn't hit a gong at 550 yards he should get a new barrel put on that rifle or change the scope as something is seriously wrong.

The barrel and scope in question seems to work just fine for the owner.

Putting an accurate expensive rifle in front of an inexperienced shooter is nothing more than just that - an expensive rifle in the hands of a novice.

Now, you can wax poetic about your own rifle and cartridge selection all you want - that doesn't really address my point.

Saying long range is all about wind reads and scope math isn't far off the mark, I concede that. All I'm saying is it's helpful to learn to shoot before you long range shoot - otherwise there wouldn't be so many people wasting ammo at the 100 yard mark on paper.

[Merc1138]

Saying long range is all about wind reads and scope math isn't far off the mark, I concede that. All I'm saying is it's helpful to learn to shoot before you long range shoot - otherwise there wouldn't be so many people wasting ammo at the 100 yard mark on paper.

Exactly. There's a reason why fundamentals are called fundamentals. All you have to do is visit any public range and take a look at targets on the 100 yard line. Not everyone is shooting a "precision" rifle, but you see tons of targets that look like they came off of a shotgun patterning board, when the people doing the shooting are resting on sandbags or a bi-pod. I'm also not talking about something silly like "LOL, that guy can't maintain a 4MOA group", I'm talking about not being able to hit a pie plate at 100 yards. It's possible that some of those people have a malfunction, sight/scope mounting issue, but a lot of them simply have zero idea what to do, because no one ever told them(and some people just don't care because they just want to make loud noises, that's fine too as long as they're being safe about it).

Giving those people a nice custom precision rifle with nice optics isn't going to do a damn thing to improve their shooting at 100 or 500 yards. What it will do is make a bigger dent in their wallet unless you're willing to foot the bill while they're learning.

[CobraRed]

^+1

And saying that "putting a bunch of $ into a .22" is a waste makes me laugh.

1st $2500 on a .22lr rifle and ammo? Great comparison

2nd Who has ever looked back and regretted buying a simple straight shooting .22?

[roentgen]

Forgive me if I'm off base - I'm not an experienced rifle shooter.

For pistols, it's all about trigger control and sight picture, right? Dry firing so you don't flinch with expected recoil. I would expect the same in regards to fundamentals of rifle shooting too.

Maybe this is the difference between the two camps here; CobraRed is assuming the fundamentals need to be learned and ingrained, StriaghtShooter maybe is assuming the fundamentals of shooting are there, and they need to learn the additional skills of wind etc.

If the OP has no shooting experience, then I would also suggest a 22. With no recoil, firing a 22 should lead to good basic trigger and sight picture skills. Recoil management will come next with the larger calibers. These fundamentals (learned on pistols) transferred pretty well for me to my initial rifle experience, such that the first time on a 200 yard line I was able to hit an 8" target on my second shot, after figuring out my offset.

[russ69]

Forgive me if I'm off base - I'm not an experienced rifle shooter. For pistols, it's all about trigger control and sight picture, right? Dry firing so you don't flinch with expected recoil. I would expect the same in regards to fundamentals of rifle shooting too...

Things are different for rifle shooting. First you need to build a solid prone position, that can take years to master. Maybe I'm a slow leaner but it took me a long time to develop my final prone position and I was competing a lot at the time. Next you need to develop or find the right load for your gun. Rifle targets are really small and it takes a solid position, a good gun, and the right load to do well in precision rifle shooting. I know of no master or high-master class shooter that has not spent a considerable amount of time shooting smallbore.
Centerfire is built on top of your rimfire experience. You now have to add, reloading and wind into your program and without the foundation of rimfire, you'll have no idea what is happening. Skipping rimfire is the same as jumping into Formula 1 without ever racing karts. I guess it can happen but you'll find very few that excel going on that pathway.

[LynnJr]

The barrel and scope in question seems to work just fine for the owner.

Yet he couldn't get the student on the gong at a relatively short distance.

Putting an accurate expensive rifle in front of an inexperienced shooter is nothing more than just that - an expensive rifle in the hands of a novice.

Your right all new shooters should start out with cheap inaccurate rifles.Lets see they shoot these cheap inaccurate rifles get frustrated and soon quit altogether.I don't see that as helpful.

Now, you can wax poetic about your own rifle and cartridge selection all you want - that doesn't really address my point.

Well it actually shows the deficeincies in your approach.Doing it the way you suggest the OP after 3 years won't have 2 seconds worth of longrange shooting under his belt but will be shooting the most expensive 22 ammo available.When he gets to the range my shooter will have 3 years worth of longrange wind doping under his belt and will have a good idea of what to do.Your shooter will be firing a centerfire for the first time and learning how to flinch with his new friend recoil while attempting to convert his 22 dopes to his outdated outclassed 308 which already leaves him at a marked disadvantage.

Saying long range is all about wind reads and scope math isn't far off the mark, I concede that. All I'm saying is it's helpful to learn to shoot before you long range shoot - otherwise there wouldn't be so many people wasting ammo at the 100 yard mark on paper.

The reason people tend to shoot at 100 yards is that is whats available to them that they can hit reasonably well.If they had better guns they would graduate on there own to the longer distances.Lots of ranges in California but very few a new shooter can use at 1000 yards on their own.As to the wind reading I know very few shooters who can actually read he wind.

To the guys suggesting the 22 and recommending he buy Lapua ammo Center-X and the like wouldn't he be better off using Eley which completely dominates all the Benchrest and Meters matches?

I couldn't with a clear conscience suggest to anyone that they need a 308 to shoot longrange unless the rules mandate its use.For longrange shooting which to my way of thinking is past 600 yards why would you put yourself at a disadvantage before the first round is fired?

[ar15barrels]

All I'm saying is it's helpful to learn to shoot before you long range shoot

This is the MOST IMPORTANT concept to take away from this thread.
My recommendation of starting with a 22 is to LEARN TO SHOOT, not to learn to shoot long distance.
If you can't shoot good at short distance, you certainly can't shoot good at long distance...

In the same regard, shooting good at short distance in NO WAY gaurantees you can shoot good at long distance.
Once you figure out how to shoot good at short distance, THEN you can start learning the wind and shooting at long distance.

[CobraRed]

I didn't say someone should shoot for 3 years explicitly using .22. That's just what I did because I happened to start when I was 13.

You're just making straw men arguments.

Long ranges are rare and usually are far away and/or cost more to shoot at. 6BR, 7mmX, 6.5x284 ammo is expensive. Those rifles can be expensive. The glass needed to shoot long range is expensive.

Now, i don't know what type of "reasonable" budget the OP had in mind, but a shooter shooting often and for cheap will be well on his way to learning the fundamentals (and having fun) before another might even be done putting a match rifle together and aquiring ammo or learning to reload.

[CobraRed]

Once you figure out how to shoot good at short distance, THEN you can start learning the wind and shooting at long distance.

So you practice fundmentals.... then try more difficult things once you have skills to build on?

This is a crazy new regiment we're wading into, gunna change the shooting scene altogether once people hear about this.

[Merc1138]

I didn't say someone should shoot for 3 years explicitly using .22. That's just what I did because I happened to start when I was 13.

You're just making straw men arguments.

Long ranges are rare and usually are far away and/or cost more to shoot at. 6BR, 7mmX, 6.5x284 ammo is expensive. Those rifles can be expensive. The glass needed to shoot long range is expensive.

Now, i don't know what type of "reasonable" budget the OP had in mind, but a shooter shooting often and for cheap will be well on his way to learning the fundamentals (and having fun) before another might even be done putting a match rifle together and aquiring ammo or learning to reload.

Just ignore LynnJr. He's so far out of touch with reality I wonder how he understands English. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=799650 Read that if you want to see more of his nonsense.

[ar15barrels]

So you practice fundmentals.... then try more difficult things once you have skills to build on?

This is a crazy new regiment we're wading into, gunna change the shooting scene altogether once people hear about this.

It's a game changer indeed...