Long Rang Shooting

[BillyGoatMachine]

Damn. And I was just going to suggest a 408 CheyTac. I don't have one myself, but I hear they're "Da Bomb".

Your way off!! Op, accept nothing less than a .557 T-REX for a beginner's rifle

[janus408]

Savage FV-SR .22lr + SWFA SS 10x.

10k rounds.

Time to practice.

Alternatively... 10/22 + tech sights + Appleseed.

[killshot44]

Is it possible for a "Long Range Rifle" thread to end in less than 50 posts?

If so, it's a first.

Yay

[Wnick308]

Is it possible for a "Long Range Rifle" thread to end in less than 50 posts?

If so, it's a first.

Yay

No, keep it going!!! POST POST POST


Sent 2700 feet per second.

[StraightShooter]

I seriously think that starting off with a 22 to learn long range marksmanship is a waste of time and money. Hitting targets out to 600-700 yards with an off the shelf rem 700 and a good scope is easy considering there is no wind. In my experience practicing shooting in the wind with a 22 at shorter ranges doesn't really translate to better wind calls at long range with larger caliber rifles. Also shooting a 22 doesn't really help with fundamentals in the sense that you need to learn to manage recoil and how to position yourself behind the gun to stay on target and provide a solid support for the rifle. 22's don't recoil so they are worthless in that regard. I personally think you will be miles ahead if you just buy a simple rem sps or 5R right off the bat with a decent scope like a bushnell or a vortex PST and some ammo.

Then when you're good with that you can upgrade to a full custom in a performance caliber like .243 Win, 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoore, etc.

[russ69]

I seriously think that starting off with a 22 to learn long range marksmanship is a waste of time and money....

I don't think any prone shooters would agree with this. The 100 yard smallbore prone target has a small 10 ring (the metric target is half that). The 22LR blows around more than a centerfire and it teaches you how still you have to be to get a center hit. It's an excellent way to learn the fundamentals of shooting and reading the wind.

[LynnJr]

If you want to get into longrange shooting get a Savage in 6BR or 6.5X284 and shoot longrange.
Learning longrange by practicing with a 22 is like learning to drive a D9 Catepillar by practicing with a Tonka Toy.
I would also stay clear of the guys running around in fatigues and jumping through tires.
If you want to shoot longrange take up Palma F-class or Benchrest and leave the gung ho stuff to the Rambo types.

[CobraRed]

I seriously think that starting off with a 22 to learn long range marksmanship is a waste of time and money. Hitting targets out to 600-700 yards with an off the shelf rem 700 and a good scope is easy considering there is no wind. In my experience practicing shooting in the wind with a 22 at shorter ranges doesn't really translate to better wind calls at long range with larger caliber rifles. Also shooting a 22 doesn't really help with fundamentals in the sense that you need to learn to manage recoil and how to position yourself behind the gun to stay on target and provide a solid support for the rifle. 22's don't recoil so they are worthless in that regard. I personally think you will be miles ahead if you just buy a simple rem sps or 5R right off the bat with a decent scope like a bushnell or a vortex PST and some ammo.

Then when you're good with that you can upgrade to a full custom in a performance caliber like .243 Win, 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoore, etc.

My first 3 years and 10's of thousands of rounds as a shooter were almost explicitly .22lr. Bolt action, lever action, iron sights, scopes all prone. I believe it did a tremendous service to my ability to then transition to longer range higher cal and I feel makes me the long range precision shooter I am today.

I wouldn't hold this opinion with much certainty if it wern't for the many new "out of the box" shooters I've tried to coach recently compared to those who have some to much .22lr, shotgun and/or pistol experience. To assume distance shooting is a wind game is to forget yourself as a new shooter.

The fundamentals and mental factor show up in huge differences of capability in new precision shooters. I've seen this in apocalyptic proportions recently shooting next to a buddy of mine teaching his friend who had never shot anything. Spent half a day shooting, closest target we have at my range spot is 550 and the targets aren't huge. Didn't hit a damn thing, all that ammo not one swinging plate. Sink or swim doesn't have a mystical effect in my experience.

Spent the first 20 mins arguing about where the target is (I could see it with no magnification) and how to see through the scope. Compare this to a co-worker of mine who wanted me to teach her son - I thought I do it just for the sake of getting out shooting and not much would come of it. But he owned an AR and a Springfield .45 and used it often. He's the fastest to take up longrange I've ever seen.

I've seen multiple cases just likes these, even at 100 yard ranges.

[ar15barrels]

I seriously think that starting off with a 22 to learn long range marksmanship is a waste of time and money.

I disagree.
A 22 will teach the basics of marksmanship and save barrel wear, shooter fatigue and significant sums of money.
22 wind calls are similar to what a 308 would be at 4x shorter distance.
Shooting 100yds with a 22 is similar windage to 400yds with a 308.
Shooting 200yds with a 22 is similar windage to 800yds with a 22.

Learning occurs with experience putting rounds on target in all sorts of conditions.
You can easily fire 150-200 rounds of 22 in a single range session and not be fatigued from recoil and muzzle blast.
Most people are worn out shooting a 308 at 50-60 rounds in a range session.
When a shooter masters a 22 at 200yds, they are ready to jump into a centerfire and push the target out to 800yds and beyond.

We all know that there is no skills to be gained by starting shooting a higher performance cartridge such as a 6mm or 6.5mm in the beginning and barrel life is one big reason why 308 is such a good starting cartridge for midrange amd longrange.
The shooter can get a solid 3000 rounds barrel life before a 308 barrel starts to open up.

[CK_32]

Head over to snipers hide and search around there for a while.


About as good as the LR info and shooters get over there.

[luchador768]

Maybe look into the .17hrm. I chose that as my first precision rifle. I've been shooting since I was 5 (36 years ago) and found the .17 to be a great way to ease into precision. Ammo is a bit easier to find than .22lr. It shoots very flat too.

[LynnJr]

The problem with starting with a 22 is he will spend 2 years practicing something he didn't want to do in the first place and use up all his equipment money at the same time.
If he starts off with a Savage 6BR the accuracy will be better than most 308's and the barrel life is just as good or better.The ballistics also match a 300 win mag but with less recoil than a 308.
Unless he is going into a competition that limits him to a 308 there are much better cartridges out there that will aid his shooting rather than hinder his shooting.Most new shooters need more aid and less hindering in my opinion.
Learn the discipline you want to learn and forget about wasting money elsewhere.

To the poster who shot 22's for several years before going to longrange.
If your buddy took a new shooter out and spent a day with him and he couldn't hit a gong at 550 yards he should get a new barrel put on that rifle or change the scope as something is seriously wrong.I can take a kid out to 600 yards who has never fired a gun and in 2 hours the gong will be boring for him/her to hit anymore.

I let a new shooter use my rifle and his first 10 not 5 shot group at 1000 yards was 9 inches and I was disappointed.

I let another guy use my 6BR back-up gun for his first match ever and he placed 7th at a National Championship and only did that bad because he listened to the wrong person while I was in the pits pulling his targets.

[JNunez23]

I began with a 10/22 with some Nikon glass and really focused on 100-200 yds with that just to get the hang of shooting a rifle without breaking the bank.

I think you're on the right track OP, good luck!

[StraightShooter]

The problem with starting with a 22 is he will spend 2 years practicing something he didn't want to do in the first place and use up all his equipment money at the same time.
If he starts off with a Savage 6BR the accuracy will be better than most 308's and the barrel life is just as good or better.The ballistics also match a 300 win mag but with less recoil than a 308.
Unless he is going into a competition that limits him to a 308 there are much better cartridges out there that will aid his shooting rather than hinder his shooting.Most new shooters need more aid and less hindering in my opinion.
Learn the discipline you want to learn and forget about wasting money elsewhere.

To the poster who shot 22's for several years before going to longrange.
If your buddy took a new shooter out and spent a day with him and he couldn't hit a gong at 550 yards he should get a new barrel put on that rifle or change the scope as something is seriously wrong.I can take a kid out to 600 yards who has never fired a gun and in 2 hours the gong will be boring for him/her to hit anymore.

I let a new shooter use my rifle and his first 10 not 5 shot group at 1000 yards was 9 inches and I was disappointed.

I let another guy use my 6BR back-up gun for his first match ever and he placed 7th at a National Championship and only did that bad because he listened to the wrong person while I was in the pits pulling his targets.

I agree. Reading mirage at long range is critical to hitting your target. Shooting on the 100 yd range with your 22 won't teach you mirage. You'll be pissed when you have dumped 2500 bucks on a 22 rifle and ammo and spent all that time learning wind just to go to your first LR match and see that the wind flags are going the opposite direction as the mirage and can't figure out how to hit the target.

[bubbapug1]

The biggest factor at 1000 yards is wind. He can own the best rifle in the world and still not shoot well if he doesn't develop his wind skills.

That's were practice with a 22lr comes in. If he plots out his wind drift for 1, 2, and 3 o'clock wind directions at various wind speeds he can set out flags every 25 yards out to 100 or 200 yards with a 22 and go at it. That's what I have finally figured out I needed to do after trying a 308 and 284 at 1000 yards. Both guns can do the job, but the wind plays a significant role in scoring 10's instead of 8's and 9's.

Op, you can get a great 22lr from CMP for a mere $425 or buy a savage on Calguns for about the same price. Throw a swfa Ss 16x42 scope on it and your gtg for you wind education.

By the book "the wind book for rifle shooters" and you'll be set for developing the skills you need to compete in f class in a few months.

As to caliber, a 7mm 180 grain bullet requires much less windage calls than a 308 175 smk. The 308 is not the way to go for 1000 yards. Go either 6.5 x 284, or some sirt of 7mm variant.