308 barrel length?

[theLBC]

Suppressors are legal with the necessary permits which are basically unobtainable by the general public.
So if you happen to be a licensed manufacturer or an FFL with an SOT, you probably have the permits.
If you happen to be an enthusiast who simply wants one, you have about a snowball's chance in hell of actually getting one in CA.

Telling the truth is not being a jerk.
I'm sorry that you think it is.

the guy i linked in my post seems to know what he's talking about.
i try to respect everyone's personal opinions, but when people say things that are factually incorrect to guys that are just asking for some advice, i will sometimes interject. notice my first post was pretty accommodating, saying only that it was "not quite true."

for some reason, you became combative from there.

i'd believe this guy over you, who also acknowledges the limitations (for competition) but still considers them capable of hitting 1000, which he demonstrated.
with a gas gun.
was it a calm day with little to no wind? maybe. does that mean it doesn't count?

1. Accuracy: The SCAR 20s is more accurate. No question about it. I have shot 2 20s's and 3 Mk11's, 2 ECR/m110's and an EMC. The 20s's consistently out perform the SR-25's.
How accurate are they? With 5 shot groups and factory ammo in each: The SR25's will average sub MOA. They will throw some groups larger and many groups smaller. The SCAR 20's will average 3/4 moa. Once in awhile will throw a group larger than MOA.
Winner: SCAR

2. Long range performance: Both will hit out to 1000. The limitation is 175 FGMM is not consistent enough to hold a tight group. Hand loads: the Scar hovers around 1 moa at 1000, the SR25 1.25-1.5 moa. I have not been able to get the SR25's to shoot as tight with hand loads. The SR25's wont seem to group with any of the low drag bullets ( have tried 175 RDF, 178 ELD, 168 berger hybrids etc), so i'm stuck with 175 SMK's. The SR25 has a long throat. The SCAR has a very short throat which I think leads to it's excellent accuracy. I worked up a load with 178gr ELD's for the scar that shoots lights out. Downside to the SCAR? 1:12 twist causes the BC to become very poor at long range. While the 1:12 stabilizes enough to group well, the wobble increases the profile of the bullet progressively reducing BC as it slows down. Meaning the ballistic calculators are not accurate for the SCAR. Neither of them are great past 800 due to poor ballistic performance. SR25 not being able to group well with low drag bullets, and SCAR twist rate too slow to maintain good stability causing BC to drop.
Winner: TIE

[ar15barrels]

i'd believe this guy over you, who also acknowledges the limitations (for competition) but still considers them capable of hitting 1000, which he demonstrated.
was it a calm day with little to no wind? maybe. does that mean it doesn't count?

Giving advice on something based on picking conditions where something is possible is not the same as giving advice where that same thing is possible on "any given day" like in the real world.
My advice is for any given day because you can't control the weather.

[rhinoortiz]

I think I'm settling on the 24" it seems to fit what I'm gonna do fine. If the extra velocity helps fight the wind then it can only be beneficial. And if I'm not gonna be lugging across mountains, I think I'll be ok.
FYI I shoot mostly desert around Bullhead city, AZ area(541') since we have a house there, barstow area(2281') and kramer junction area(2477'). Probably the only places I go that I can stretch to any real distance without it being a specific range.
I really do appreciate everybody's feedback.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[sigstroker]

Why make things harder on yourself? Why don't you just get a 6.5 Creedmoor? Just about any barrel length you will find will be much better at long range than a .308. You won't have to worry about the barrel, you can just buy whatever color you like.

[LynnJr]

We had a CalGuns member Apollo use a short barreled 308 at 2054 yards and get a single hit. He shot around 80 rounds.
I don't think a single hit means it's a viable 2000 Yard gun as forum member Focus got 9 hits out if 10 shots with his 375 Snipetac.
Forum Member Phil3 shot one of my 300's at 1000 yards ten years ago and his first ever groups at 1000 yards with a gun he had never seen not shot before were all 2.5 inches smaller than the one posted by the owner of snipers hides.
Did I mention they were all 10 shot groups not 5 shot groups?
A 12.5 inch group at 1000 yards is only good if your gun choice is a short barrel SCAR. The reason he shoots short barrel guns is because he is only about 5 feet tall.
22 Rimfire ammo is good to a mile and a half on the boxes label but beyond 200 yards it's hard to hit a 5 gallon bucket with it with most guns.
Just because it can be done doesn't make it a good choice.

[wooger]

I wouldn't recommend anything under 30" unless it was a barrel dedicated for 215's. In that case 29" would be ok. If you are shooting 185's or lighter 32" is your long range friend.

[rhinoortiz]

Why make things harder on yourself? Why don't you just get a 6.5 Creedmoor? Just about any barrel length you will find will be much better at long range than a .308. You won't have to worry about the barrel, you can just buy whatever color you like.

I probably will get a 6.5 in the future. This will not be my only rifle. i just figured i don't have a 308 yet and figured i would start there.

[smoothy8500]

Serious newbie question: can you get kicked off for missing?

Missing because you had incorrect dope or some correctable issue is ok, we'll figure it out and move forward. Shooters that show up at the 1K line with 168's and/or a short barrel spraying rounds...Unfortunately, that gets shut down. The potential for injury or damage to target frames is too high.

Newbies that show up and say they only have a 100yd zero will get help and be hitting the 8-ring or better within a couple of rounds.

[rhinoortiz]

I wouldn't recommend anything under 30" unless it was a barrel dedicated for 215's. In that case 29" would be ok. If you are shooting 185's or lighter 32" is your long range friend.

30" thats a big rifle. that might be a little too much, haha. i guess when i say long range and 1000 yard capable, most think that I'm starting at 1k and going from there. For me long range is anything past 400. Thats the farthest I've shot so far. Most of my shooting will be from 100 to maybe 500. For me to go out and set up a 1k shot and have someone there to spot, help, and even wants to try a shot like that is going to be very rare. i think an off the shelf rifle with a 24" barrel will be just fine for what I'm doing.

[smoothy8500]

^^^^For the OP, a 24" barrel will work out well enough.

all i am trying to do is show that it is incorrect when you say a 20" .308 rifle can't shoot 1000 yards.

I will admit based on your post, the SCAR appears more accurate than I had considered. I did also think the pics were your rifle/target.

Regardless, the SCAR's group capability is based on 5 rounds. For "banging steel" I'm sure it's perfectly adequate with a 20" barrel. However, NRA F-class shooters will shoot three 20 round strings, and our goal is the X-ring which is 1/2 MOA. Accuracy, and wind reading are the keys. Obviously, the bar is much higher for them vs guys just "banging steel".

Clearly, this quickly divided everyone into two camps.

[sigstroker]

For people that don't know, the SCAR 20 is knocking on 4 grand in cost. It's pretty darn well built. It's also based on the military SCAR 16, used by our Special Forces, among others. They come with a 20 round magazine outside of CA. I doubt a 20 round string is going to bother it.

[theLBC]

^^^^For the OP, a 24" barrel will work out well enough.



I will admit based on your post, the SCAR appears more accurate than I had considered. I did also think the pics were your rifle/target.

Regardless, the SCAR's group capability is based on 5 rounds. For "banging steel" I'm sure it's perfectly adequate with a 20" barrel. However, NRA F-class shooters will shoot three 20 round strings, and our goal is the X-ring which is 1/2 MOA. Accuracy, and wind reading are the key.

Clearly, this quickly divided everyone into two camps.

thanks. sorry if anything i said was misleading. i thought the link would make it clear (not my forum name).

for my part, i did think it would be a multi purpose gun that he might try to reach 1000 for a fun challenge, not really for competition or target shooting.
take on old door out to the desert and see how far you can go.
higher BC calibers are so much better for shooting out that far, with maybe half the wind drift (twice the margin of error), i wouldn't buy a .308 if i was serious about 1000 yards.

anyways, i will concede that there is a pretty big difference between 800 and 1000 yards for a .308. one being easy and the other being a challenge.

[Fjold]

Federal Gold Medal Match 168 and 175 ammunition will not stay supersonic at 1,000 yards from a 20" Remington bolt gun at our range (2,650 feet of elevation).

I've pasted to many oblong holes.

[splithoof]

I've no dog in this fight. I shoot a 17.25" barrel .308 Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle, among other things, and no farther than 300 yards...

I'm with you on this Apples.....although my assortment of RGR's all have barrels closer to 16". Perfect for my personal needs, and I don't use those on game farther than 300 yards MAX.
I used to use a 700 with a 24" tube shooting 175 SMK's, and could on a good day score hits on a 1K target at our club range, and it worked well enough. Then I invested in a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5CM, all the support stuff, and have never looked back.
I won't wade into the arguments going on here, what works for me might not be what works for someone else.
Back to The Shed to sort through all that Coleman stuff.......

[JTROKS]

theLBC, I also thought you’re posting your target/group shot at 1000 yards. I did not want to bring up having suppressor attached, just assumed you were out of state. I have 2 rifles in 308 Win, an AR10 20” 1-10 twist and a Rem 700 PSS with the slower 1:12. The shorter barrel result in slower velocity, unless you have that magical fast barrel. It’s hard to hit with the 308 at long distance with a cold bore unless you have your hardware dialed in and you’re shooting where dope is collected.

If your barrel can’t keep that 175 SMK supersonic at 1000 yards, good luck hitting an IPSC size silhouette at 1K.