308 barrel length?

[vintagearms]

I understand I'm not gonna get a rifle and hit at 1k. Heck, I've only gone 300 so far. I might not ever hit at 1k. I'm fine with that. I also understand that this will not be an end al be all rifle. I'm fine with that too. I also haven't really settled on a set up at all yet. I've just been looking at rifles and realize most have the option of 20 or 24 inch barrel and was curious of which would be better. A target rifle that might see some hunting. Shooting all kinds of distances. Seems lile the consensus is 24 over a 20.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

24 over 20, as you can always have it cut down and rethreaded later.

[theLBC]

I understand I'm not gonna get a rifle and hit at 1k. Heck, I've only gone 300 so far. I might not ever hit at 1k. I'm fine with that. I also understand that this will not be an end al be all rifle. I'm fine with that too. I also haven't really settled on a set up at all yet. I've just been looking at rifles and realize most have the option of 20 or 24 inch barrel and was curious of which would be better. A target rifle that might see some hunting. Shooting all kinds of distances. Seems lile the consensus is 24 over a 20.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/the-t...-and-accuracy/

did you read this?

[Fjold]

Delete

[rhinoortiz]

did you read this?

I just finished reading it. Pretty interesting. So from my understanding then barrel length shouldn't have much to do with accuracy except for increasing velocity which will resist wind drift better. Especially with only a 4" difference, or am misinterpreting that?

[smoothy8500]

Sorry, I didn't realize that I was talking with a world class long range shooter, I thought that it was just for a new shooter actually looking for information.

Oh dear, you can't get too upset. You have to remember that most Calgunners "bang steel" all day with their 16" barrels at whatever distance. Of course that steel is a 48" manhole cover that doesn't care if the projectile is wobbling in the transonic zone like a drunken sailor on liberty...

[theLBC]

I just finished reading it. Pretty interesting. So from my understanding then barrel length shouldn't have much to do with accuracy except for increasing velocity which will resist wind drift better. Especially with only a 4" difference, or am misinterpreting that?

that was their conclusion

unless your pressing the maximum the barrel length will do with the velocity it produces, the extra length won't help.

if you want to shoot as far as you can, the longer barrel might be a better choice, assuming barrel harmonics are under control.
if you want to carry it around hunting things inside 300 yards, the extra 4" isn't going to do anything for you (snicker)

keep in mind this is one barrel type and profile and there are many things besides barrel length to consider.
like girth


for example, the Scar 17S is extremely accurate for a lightweight battle rifle with the standard 16" pin barrel. it is effective out to about 800 yds.
the Scar 20S with a 20" bull barrel is even more accurate with an effective range beyond 1000 yards.

[vintagearms]

for example, the Scar 17S is extremely accurate for a lightweight battle rifle with the standard 16" pin barrel. it is effective out to about 800 yds.
the Scar 20S with a 20" bull barrel is even more accurate with an effective range beyond 1000 yards.

What do they consider effective range? Minute of man or ?

[ar15barrels]

Hey all. New here. This is my first post besides the intro post, lol. Recently my brother and I have started looking into entry level long range rifles. Something that can be 1000 yard capable. Among my research I've noticed different barrel length options for 308 caliber rifles. My question to you guys is will there be any benefit to go with a 24" over a 20". Those seem to be the most common I've seen. I know velocity goes up with length. I'm not using a chronograph and like I said, we are just getting into this kind of shooting. So if it dosnt really matter as much in the 400 to 1k distance then I dont really see the need for the longer barrel. If you guys can help a newborn out that would be great.
Thanks Ryan

20" barrels are generally limited to about 800yds.
Its common for the bullets to go sideways by 900yds and the groups to exceed the 6ft target frame size.
If you want to shoot at 1000yds, you want the barrel as long as practical.
26" to 30" are the norm in competition with 308's.

[ar15barrels]

Your reputation precedes you, I know that Jim has slapped you down a few times on Savageshooters.com for being such a charming fellow on the forums.

He's starting to get one here too.
You and I have both been in the pits when those 20" 308 shooters are throwing rocks at us so we understand that those "only 30-60fps..." actually make all the difference.
Let's not spoil his reality with the truth...

[ar15barrels]

I just finished reading it. Pretty interesting. So from my understanding then barrel length shouldn't have much to do with accuracy except for increasing velocity which will resist wind drift better. Especially with only a 4" difference, or am misinterpreting that?

The velocity also effects the stability.
When the bullet slows down below it's stability threshold, the bullet will start tumbling and become very erratic, often missing the target by many feet.

[theLBC]

What do they consider effective range? Minute of man or ?

for the military it is based on MOA accuracy extended at various ranges..

Accuracy
Comparison of 0.5, 1, and 3 MOA extreme spread levels against a human torso at 800 m (left) and a human head at 100 m (right)
Precision Weapon Engagement Ranges & Dispersion according to the US Army
The Tango 51 sniper rifle has an accuracy guarantee of 0.25 MOA (0.07 mrad)

A military-issue battle rifle or assault rifle is usually capable of between 3-6 minute of angle (1-2 milliradian) accuracy.[20] A standard-issue military sniper rifle is typically capable of 1-3 MOA (0.3-1 mrad) accuracy, with a police sniper rifle capable of 0.25-1.5 MOA (0.1-0.5 mrad) accuracy. For comparison, a competition target or benchrest rifle may be capable of accuracy up to 0.15-0.3 MOA (0.05-0.1 mrad).

A 1 MOA (0.28 mrad) average extreme spread for a 5-shot group (meaning the center-to-center distance between the two most distant bullet holes in a shot-group) translates into a 69% probability that the bullet's point of impact will be in a Target Circle with a diameter of 23.3 cm (9.2 in) at 800 m (875 yd).[21] This average extreme spread for a 5-shot group and the accompanying hit probability are considered sufficient for effectively hitting a human shape at 800 m distance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle

[ar15barrels]

for the military it is based on MOA accuracy extended at various ranges..

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/a8/ab/aaa8abcf8f6596723a8c33dc2e38d200.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle

So those are YOUR accuracy standards?

[theLBC]

20" barrels are generally limited to about 800yds.
Its common for the bullets to go sideways by 900yds and the groups to exceed the 6ft target frame size.
If you want to shoot at 1000yds, you want the barrel as long as practical.
26" to 30" are the norm in competition with 308's.

not quite true.

even the 1:12 twist 20" Scar 20S is capable beyond 1000 yards with 175gr SMK.
and this is from a semi-auto platform.
typical 145-150gr M80 ball is limited to 600+ yards ime

https://www.guns.com/news/2018/11/06/fn-delivers-new-scar-20s-precision-rifle-to-commercial-market-video

Long available only to military and LE customers, FN announced Tuesday they are releasing a commercial version of the SCAR 20 rifle.

The 7.62x51mm-chambered FN MK20 SSR, or Sniper Support Rifle, has been fielded within USSOCOM units over the past decade and promises sub-MOA accuracy out to and beyond 1,000 yards.

The new commercial SCAR 20S version sports much the same specs to include a 20-inch, 1-in-12-inch twist, heavy profile barrel and an adjustable stock outfitted with numerous MIL-STD-1913 accessory rails at the 3-, 6-, 9-, and 12 o’clock positions. Importantly, it also comes with a factory-installed, double-stage Geissele Super SCAR trigger that provides a 3.5 to 4.5-pound trigger pull.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/rifles/first-look-fn-scar-20s/

Rounds Downrange

I used two loads for my initial testing—Hornady’s 155-grain American Gunner BTHPs and Black Hills’ 178-grain ELD-Xs—giving me a nice range of bullet weights. And I’ll cut to the chase and say that the rifle was extremely accurate with both loads.

The Hornady rounds have produced match-grade results in every rifle I’ve tested so far, and the SCAR 20S only added to that reputation. My groups at 100 yards were mostly in the 0.7- to 0.75-inch range, with a few closer to 0.6 inches. At 300 yards, the SCAR 20S produced a 2.86-inch group, which is still sub-MOA.

At greater distances—400, 500 and 600 yards—the Hornady BTHPs held their own. It was almost too easy to ring steel silhouettes at these distances using just the hood of my truck as a rest. The SCAR 20S was easy to maneuver and shoot from others positions, too, including prone.

The Black Hills 178-grain ELD-Xs were almost as accurate at 100 yards, but out to 300, I was able to create a 2.56-inch cluster. Going farther only demonstrated the superiority of the ELD-Xs. Moderately rapid fire at 700 yards yielded six out of seven hits when I used a 5-mil hold at the top of the steel target. I was able to get some center hits on the steel in stiff wind, too.

Moving to 1,000 yards and dialing in the elevation, I managed to get eight hits out of 10 shots on a 16-by-12-inch steel target—as good as it gets for a 7.62mm NATO designed as a purpose-built precision rifle.

[theLBC]

So those are YOUR accuracy standards?

mine?

mine is being able to hit a steel ipsc target, even a nick

[theLBC]

again, i am not saying extra length doesn't extend the absolute limits of the rifle (assuming again that you don't end up with worse harmonics).
if you want to do that, by all means.
i just wouldn't want to carry a 26-30" heavy profile rifle around for anything but prone/bench target shooting.