9mm vs .40

[TripleThreat]

The problem with your question isn't the question but rather the answers you'll receive, as you've seen the responses are many & varied. Some of the advice is right on, while some are completely bias, can you tell the difference? May be, may be not. I expect to get ding for my response. But here goes anyway!

Here's what I suggest without bias, understanding this response will most likely get lost in a sea of the other responses, but I'm willing to go fourth in the hopes of helping anyway. Shoot a 40 cal and shoot a 9mm, both a target set at the same distance (7 to 15 feet would be a realistic distance). Which everone you shoot the most accurate, is the caliber I'd go with.

40 cal is a very snappy round and harder to control then most 9mm. Back in the day, 9mm weren't very powerful, but with today's ammo such as Corbon or Hornady denfensive loads, a 9mm can make for potent round. Go with a +P (+ powder) or +P+ load.

Now as far as weapons are concerned, I put guns into two categories. Fine weapons and regular weapons. This is only my opinion, but I have founds the following to be fine weapons: Sig, Kimber, CZ, Colt Python etc. Other guns such as, Glocks, XD, Berretta etc are all great guns but more so combat weapons or duty weapons.

Worth noting is that CZ's P-01, if you plan to go the CCW route and their SP-01 if you want a range or safe gun, is a fine class weapon that can be had at the price of a regular weapon.

Hope you find something here worth you're while.

[Kappy]

How many of your posts are pointless, dickish responses like this? Who **** in your wheaties? Gtfo.

He lives in the Bay Area. I can completely understand why he'd be constantly cranky. I would be, too.

[Kappy]

Completely disagree. Here in SoCal, .40 was almost always available at WalMart. 9mm was nowhere to be seen along with .45 ACP.

Tell you what... this upcoming scare, we'll trade ammo. I couldn't find any .40 here in Norcal.

[Travis590A1]

there are so many cases of people taking 9mm rounds to the body and not going down.

i have yet to hear of someone taking .40 or .45 rounds to the body and continuing to fight.

16 rounds of 9mm and they kept coming? Idk about that unless they were all to the foot or hands lol. As far as you never hearing about a person standing after rounds of a. 40 or. 45, well I've seen videos and articles of people taking buckshot to the chest and still tickin. I think if your an L.E. officer and need 16 rounds of any firearm to stop only one person then your in the wrong profession lol. Assuming the perp is not wearing body armour.

[sd_shooter]

40 cal is a very snappy round and harder to control then most 9mm. Back in the day, 9mm weren't very powerful, but with today's ammo such as Corbon or Hornady denfensive loads, a 9mm can make for potent round. Go with a +P (+ powder) or +P+ load.

9mm will be just as 'snappy' as 40mm if you're shooting full power HD rounds.

Neither are snappy if you're shooting soft reloads.

None of the popular handguns rounds are punishing or snappy if fired from the right gun. 38 special feels like a 357 magnum when fired from an LCR but like a 'mouse fart' when fired from a 6" GP100.

[ianS]

Why I chose 9mm for self defense

1. Based on all the literature I've read over the years from people who study this stuff whether its ballistics or real life shootings I've concluded handguns simply aren't as powerful as people would like to believe. The difference in caliber is a matter of increments. No one can deny a .45 or .40 is a larger heavier bullet than 9mm but proving its superiority is another matter and should be based on evidence not emotion. What you're getting is slightly better ballistics for a more difficult to shoot caliber. Whether the difference is worth it should be up to the individual.

2. Shot placement is key. Its true with rifles so why wouldn't it be even more true with handguns? When 9mm, .357, .40, , or .45 hits vital areas they all tend to do the job of "stopping" the perp. When vital areas are NOT hit with whatever caliber they all tend not to "stop" the perp. There is a lot of evidence to support this. Whereas claims that a .357, .40, or .45 did the job where a 9mm wouldn't has always been anecdotal. The only conclusive evidence for an advantage of larger handgun calibers is against intermediate barriers like car doors and windshields. But with good heavy bonded 9mm loads the gap is closed significantly as well.

3. When you get training your instructor will teach you to shoot until the perp has stopped his attack or advance. They don't make exceptions for people who shoot "larger" or faster calibers than 9mm. This admontion is based on experience. Caliber cannot make up for not making good hits.

4. Which leads to which caliber will you have a better chance of making good hits under stress, fear, and varying circumstances? Honestly, anyone can shoot .40, .357, .45 and make decent groups on paper on a square range with good stance and firm two handed grip. Being proficient with a handgun is different from merely being able to shoot something at the range. This requires a higher level of proficiency which I constantly need to work on and lately have not been able to do much of these days.

5. I shoot better with my 9mm Glock in classes I've taken than I ever did with my 1911's, Glock .40's, and SIG 9mm and .40. I've taken the larger caliber route and the cost is not worth it literally and figuratively.

As far as hangun choice I invariably recommend 9mm Glocks because they are a proven system for myself and others. We go with what we know. But if the SIGPro appeals to you go for it. They are excellent pistols. The important thing is understand its manual of arms and train appropriately. DA to SA trigger press. Decock before holstering.

My 99 cents. Good luck.

[acolytes]

1. I'm interested in the Sig because it felt really good in my hand, I liked the feel of it much more than the XD I looked at.

2. I do intend to get some sort of training, would really like to do some sort of home defense training as that is my primary reason for wanting one of these.

3. I don't intend to use it to scare somebody on the streets, but it is added comfort knowing it is there if somebody threatens us.

I realize my first post may have come off a little, "I just played GTA 4" now I want to get a gun. But that is not at all why I want it, I want to be able to protect my home and my family wherever we may be. Isn't that why we all want to own one?

Most of us own much more than one. I can't speak for the others, but I own them not only to be able to protect my home and family, but also because I'm an enthusiast that enjoys collecting and shooting guns. I have gotten many people who have never touched a gun before to go shooting, and they not only purchased their own firearm afterwards, they have also become enthusiasts, and have purchased multiple firearms since.

[tacticalcity]

My dept.(socal sheriff), teaches us to shoot one or two rounds at a time and never a head shot. We would love to have your system! BTW, multiple deputies and multiple shots, not all hitting their target in vital areas. I spoke with some of those deputies but I was not a participant.

Wow...brother that sucks. I have never heard of a department teaching that method. Not since the North Hollywood Shootout where the beat cops continued to shoot only at the body which was covered in armor and none of them thought to shoot at the head (not until SWAT finally arrived after being stuck in traffic) anyway. That incident caused departments to stop letting lawyers dictate training and instead looked at reality.

For a while most departments went with 2 shots (controlled pair) to the body and one to the head. Until an officer shot a suspect twice in the chest and as he was falling, trailed him and took the head shot executing him infront of witnesses. I used to know the name of the officer, city, etc but have since forgotten...CRS. The officer didn't mean to...didn't think. Did it on instinct. TAfter that departments started emphasising that you needed to pause for a beat and confirm the suspect was still a threat before doing a "failure to stop drill" aka head shot.

Wasn't until I started taking weekend classes taught by local SWAT guys that I learned their department (and according to them most departments) had switched to the non-standard response of 3-5 shots center mass and then a failure to stop drill (head shot) if necessary. Their argument for which is that when you are up close and personal speed is everything and it takes multiple wound paths to cause the bad guy's body to go into shock and drop right there on the spot regardless of the round (they mostly use 45 ACP but are also all young big buff dudes with arms the size of tree trunks). These guys often find themselves at arms length with armed suspects while clearing buildings with lots of tight hallways, closets and corners.

I am really surprised your department teaches the methods they teach. That is really not good. Very pre-90s thinking (at least according to the schools that I have attended). It definately explains your failure to stops. It is not a one shot one stop world. Especially if the guy is wacked out on meth. Unless you get the brain pan or spinal cord, the bad guy can and will often stay in the fight until you put enough holes in him that his body cannot help but go into shock...or so the experts say (not counting myself among them other than I subsribe to their view).

[paul0660]

my father in law is retired lbpd gang unit. he says his partner unloaded 16 rounds of 9mm hollow point into someone and then he had to come with .45acp to finish him. that was enough form me to only shoot my 9mm at paper, cardboard, and steel.

BS thread of the day. PM me your address so I can send you your award.

teaches us to shoot one or two rounds at a time and never a head shot.

Makes no sense.

[Lead Waster]

16 rounds of 9mm and they kept coming? Idk about that unless they were all to the foot or hands lol. As far as you never hearing about a person standing after rounds of a. 40 or. 45, well I've seen videos and articles of people taking buckshot to the chest and still tickin. I think if your an L.E. officer and need 16 rounds of any firearm to stop only one person then your in the wrong profession lol. Assuming the perp is not wearing body armour.

To add some humor ... maybe all 16 rounds went through the same hole? I mean, that's some darn fine shooting! The .45 was needed to make the hole a might larger!

I would say that there is nobody I know of who wants to kill me so badly that they'll keep coming after 16 rounds. Or even after the first one.

Edit: OK, the meth-head scenario that tac-city mentions might account for someone coming at you regardless of wounds.

[wurger]

As far as recoil goes, I frankly don't notice that much of a difference with my Glock 35 between .40 or 9mm using a conversion barrel.

[Travis590A1]

To add some humor ... maybe all 16 rounds went through the same hole? I mean, that's some darn fine shooting! The .45 was needed to make the hole a might larger!

I would say that there is nobody I know of who wants to kill me so badly that they'll keep coming after 16 rounds. Or even after the first one.

Edit: OK, the meth-head scenario that tac-city mentions might account for someone coming at you regardless of wounds.

I've heard of tweakers/meth heads taking 3-4 rounds but 16? The odds of 1 of the 16 rounds striking a vital area are to high. I think the gentleman behind the story is just a 9mm hater!

[walmart_ar15]

9mm will be just as 'snappy' as 40mm if you're shooting full power HD rounds.

Wow never had experience shooting a 40mm hand gun, but good to know it only kick like a 9mm.

[wurger]

I don't even want to think about how much a box of 40mm would cost.

[tacticalcity]

To add some humor ... maybe all 16 rounds went through the same hole? I mean, that's some darn fine shooting! The .45 was needed to make the hole a might larger!

I would say that there is nobody I know of who wants to kill me so badly that they'll keep coming after 16 rounds. Or even after the first one.

Edit: OK, the meth-head scenario that tac-city mentions might account for someone coming at you regardless of wounds.

16 good hits with a 9mm should do the trick...if not that's a video that needs to make the rounds because that is one "truly motivated, highly dedicated opponent" - from hell.