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  #1  
Old 11-13-2012, 7:05 PM
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Default 9mm Shootout: BHP vs 92A1 vs SP-01 vs P-01

I'm posting up a 9mm shootout which I promised to do a month or so ago. I elected to shoot 10 rounds from each of the following 9mm handguns. All targets & distances were free-hand on the first attempt.

The Contenders:
1. Browning High Power - This was my first 9mm, this weapon fits my hand better than any handgun I've ever held. I have a lot of love for the BHP as well as most anything made by John Browning.

2. Berretta 92A1 - This is my most recent 9mm purchase and this is now one of my favorite handguns to shoot, I'm not as accurate with it as the CZ SP-01, but the Berretta is much smoother and more fun to shoot, it has the best reset of the bunch and is a sexy looking piece.

3. CZ SP-01 - Most accurate of the group, great weapon, too heavy to carry as a duty weapon, but I love the 18+1 capacity, as well as the build quality.

4. CZ P-01 - This is mainly the gun my Wife shoots. It's not as accurate as the SP-01, but it's a neat little weapon none the less. I'm still breaking in the gun, it had an issue with having overspray along the rails that would not allow the weapon to go into full battery, onced it was cleaned up (excess removed) the issue went away.

I'll let the results speak for themselves for the most part, but I would like to have a do over when the chance arises. I hadn't practiced "target" shooting for about 2 months, so I was a little rusty and as such, I decided to shoot from 15ft off hand instead of the 20ft which was the initial planned.

I figured I started shooting better by the time I got around to the CZ SP-01, but in the end that wasn't the case. It's simply because of the accuracy of the CZ. I had one flyer (aka known as a bad shooting) using the Berretta (center low) and one with the CZ-P01 (center high) .

I had thought the Berretta would've of won the whole thing, but this day, this time, it did not, nod to the CZ SP-01. I love the Browning High Power, but sad to say, it was least accurate with this handgun which not only have I owned the longest, but find it the most comfortable to hold and shoot.



Updated: Day 2 20FT Off Hand
Below is what took place on Day 2. I added CZ's P-01 and moved the target out to 20Ft. What I thought was a warm up issue with the SP-01 on day one was not, the CZ is clearly a more accurate weapon then the others, by a long shot if you're asking. And yes, the SP-01 used 10 shots as well, but you can only see 8 holes (or so).


Day 2 75 FT
For the 25 Yard fans, here is what I did this evening. Mind you, I'm satisfied with the group for not shooting at this distance for at least 6 months. But I must tell you my aging eyes are giving me fits, even with 4 large orange stickers I couldn't make out the center of the target clearly.


Triple

Last edited by TripleThreat; 11-23-2017 at 7:27 AM.. Reason: Free Hand changed to Off Hand
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2012, 7:19 PM
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This does not help me in wanting a CZ any less now.
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Old 11-13-2012, 7:23 PM
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I'm with OutlawDon on this one. Just checked out a CZ P01 at my LGS two hours ago.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2012, 7:27 PM
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That's pretty good shooting.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2012, 7:29 PM
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Glad I shoot only .40, otherwise I would have to buy 3 more guns
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2012, 7:34 PM
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Other than my other real target 9's, my SP-01 is the most accurate.
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Old 11-13-2012, 7:55 PM
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Not to discount what you've done, but I bet if you kick it out to 15-25yds the groups would look even more different. Five yards (15ft) is really too close to judge any kind of precision.
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Old 11-13-2012, 8:09 PM
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Can't say I disagree with you, I'll do 20ft next time, which I believe is a good distance for home self defense accuracy.

I can shoot 25 yards, but my eyes start to blur when I do. Ahh to be young again.....

Triple

Last edited by TripleThreat; 12-27-2014 at 8:21 PM..
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2012, 8:23 PM
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Cz or go home.

They are the best of the best

No one comes close in 9mm

Sorry glock.
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2012, 8:37 PM
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CZ makes the most accurate pistols IMO but I love the reliability of Glock. Actually I've never had a failure with my CZ either but I have WAY more rounds through my glock. I keep a G17 and CZ PCR on the nightstand for SD so I trust them both.
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Old 11-13-2012, 8:58 PM
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What's a cz sp-10?
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That is an awesome test with honest results.
But Drab is correct, either way if you come closer or move away to 15-20 yards it will show different results, but I'm confident that the CZ Will still own.
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Glad I shoot only .40, otherwise I would have to buy 3 more guns
But don't they MAKE each one in .40? Hahaha
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Old 11-13-2012, 9:10 PM
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What was the point of this test? Shooting little tiny groups at 5 ft is a pointless test for a defensive handgun isn't it?
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Old 11-13-2012, 9:46 PM
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The point is:
Because he can. He has a right to shoot his guns however far ayway he wants to, who are you to tell any of us anything.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2012, 9:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexLuther View Post
What was the point of this test? Shooting little tiny groups at 5 ft is a pointless test for a defensive handgun isn't it?
BTW it's 15ft. not 5ft.

Some care about accuracy, just as some care about horse power ratings or how much something weighs etc. The goal was to provide a comparison, not just sit on the sidelines and complain.

Triple

Last edited by TripleThreat; 11-13-2012 at 10:12 PM..
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:18 PM
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5 ft or 15, i thought they were tight groups. On new vs. used, my SP-01 trigger finally evened out after 1000+ rounds (particularly as it breaks through the sear) so maybe used is better.

I like my SP-01, but I also dig my G19, a totally different kind of gun but also very accurate. Sometimes I think it's all about the sights.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:51 PM
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I have all of the pistols mentioned in this thread and sadly I agree that my Hi-Power is the least accurate of all of them. May to unload it so stay tuned.
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Old 11-14-2012, 2:22 AM
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CZ > Glock


CZ FTW!
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2012, 4:37 AM
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Not to rain on the CZ parade, but at only 15 feet all of those pistols should produce smaller, one hole cloverleaf groups. It would of been better to rest the pistols if you want to compare mechanical accuracy. We're seeing what pistol the shooter happened to shoot best, be it from better trigger, sights, familiarity/whatever (and indeed he mentions he was more warmed up by the time he got to the CZ) not a real demonstration of precision potential of the individual pistols.

It may very well be that the CZ is the most accurate (precise) of the three, but you can't tell from this test imho.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2012, 5:44 AM
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Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
Not to rain on the CZ parade, but at only 15 feet all of those pistols should produce smaller, one hole cloverleaf groups. It would of been better to rest the pistols if you want to compare mechanical accuracy. We're seeing what pistol the shooter happened to shoot best, be it from better trigger, sights, familiarity/whatever (and indeed he mentions he was more warmed up by the time he got to the CZ) not a real demonstration of precision potential of the individual pistols.

It may very well be that the CZ is the most accurate (precise) of the three, but you can't tell from this test imho.
This is basically what I was trying to get at, plus the point that strict ability to shoot small groups seems like a less than useful test for a combat for a self defense gun. If you are taking the time to shoot a small group into a bad guy, you are probably going to jail. If you are evaluating for self defense a better test will show how quick / easy you can get combat accurate hits.
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2012, 9:01 AM
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try the same test but start 25 yards away from the bench, sprint to the bench, grab the gun or unholster the gun and fire 10 rounds on target.

Slow fire from a bench doesn't tell you how well the gun suits you or your hands.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2012, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
but you can't tell from this test imho.
I sort of agree. I am not sure what "freehand" means, but if it is not with a rest it is good shooting and does represent a good idea of relative mechanical accuracy, weighed an unknown amount by the shooter's grip, which might have everything to do with the results.
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Old 11-14-2012, 9:34 AM
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I'm trying to convince my dad to give me his High Power and in exchange ill trade him a glock 19.

he's not buying it....

it would have been nice to have a SP-01, P-01 and a Hi-Power. I just cant get into a Beretta unfortunately.
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Old 11-14-2012, 9:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
Not to rain on the CZ parade, but at only 15 feet all of those pistols should produce smaller, one hole cloverleaf groups. It would of been better to rest the pistols if you want to compare mechanical accuracy. We're seeing what pistol the shooter happened to shoot best, be it from better trigger, sights, familiarity/whatever (and indeed he mentions he was more warmed up by the time he got to the CZ) not a real demonstration of precision potential of the individual pistols.

It may very well be that the CZ is the most accurate (precise) of the three, but you can't tell from this test imho.
I completely agree with this.

I know for a fact that I can shoot my Glock 26 (subcompact 9mm) at 5 yards (15 feet) and get similar if not better results. Especially if it is simple bullseye shooting with all the time in the world. Most firearms will be plenty accurate at this short distance.
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Old 11-14-2012, 9:38 AM
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I know for a fact that I can shoot my Glock 26 (subcompact 9mm) at 5 yards (15 feet) and get similar if not better results.
Pics.............or you know what.
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Old 11-14-2012, 9:42 AM
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Five yards is too close, and freehand (assuming that means "standing, unsupported") is more a measure of the shooter, not the gun.

Assuming the thread is about comparing the inherent mechanical accuracy of the three pistols mentioned, the shooting must be done further back (at least 25 yds.) and off a rest (to minimize shooter variables). Otherwise, it's more of a "Look what I did!" thread, not an "X vs. Y vs. Z" thread.

ETA: Uh, what redcliff said.
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Old 11-14-2012, 9:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Pics.............or you know what.
LOL. I knew someone would say that. I don't take pictures of my targets for multiple reasons.

1. I never have a decent camera on me. (cell phones suck)

2. How would you know it was my pics to begin?

3. I always forget to take them anyways.

It really isn't that difficult to have similar results. Most of my time I spend at the range, I'm shooting inside of 20 feet from a draw. Bullseye shooting is low stress and much easier to master than defensive shooting.
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Old 11-14-2012, 9:54 AM
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LOL. I knew someone would say that. I don't take pictures of my targets for multiple reasons.

1. I never have a decent camera on me. (cell phones suck)

2. How would you know it was my pics to begin?

3. I always forget to take them anyways.

It really isn't that difficult to have similar results. Most of my time I spend at the range, I'm shooting inside of 20 feet from a draw. Bullseye shooting is low stress and much easier to master than defensive shooting.
I agree, and was kidding. Pencils can make great "bullet" holes btw.........so I have heard. I have taken a few pics of targets to give to students, signed and dated so they can keep them for reference. Most of the rest is hogwash. It is very cool to see a realtime cloverleaf target, and that has happened a few times..............not my shooting, but I was there, and know it can happen.
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Old 11-14-2012, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleThreat View Post
I'm posting up a 9mm shootout which I promised to do a month or so back, so here it is. 10 rounds from each from the following weapons.
1. Browning High Power
2. Berretta 92A1
3. CZ SP-01


I'll let the results speak for themselves for the most part, but I would like to have a do over when the chance arises. I hadn't practiced "target" shooting for about 2 months, so I was a little rusty and as such, I decided to shoot from 15ft free hand instead of the 20ft as I initially planned.

I noticed I started shooting better by the time I got around to the CZ SP-01. The better grouping came because I was warmed up, but it was also due to the accuracy of the CZ. I had one flyer using the Berretta (center low) and one with the CZ-P01 (center high).

I had thought the Berretta would've of won the whole thing, but this day, this time, it did not, nod to the CZ. I love the Browning High Power, but sad to say, it's about the least accurate handgun I own.

Triple
Interesting. My BHP will put them all in the same hole as will my CZ75. I haven't ever been able to hit anything with a 92 - the triggers for all the ones I've handled are god awful.

Nice job and cool "test".
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bask View Post
Cz or go home.

They are the best of the best

No one comes close in 9mm

Sorry glock.

So your old troll account was banned and you decided to make a new one?


Last edited by Shenaniguns; 11-14-2012 at 10:19 AM..
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:09 AM
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I agree with most of the other guys in that this test tells pretty much nothing about the accuracy of each gun. You need to completely eliminate the shooter from the equation to get meaningful mechanical accuracy data.
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Old 11-14-2012, 2:13 PM
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Default Take from it, what you will

To clear a few things up I shot "free" "hand" (not resting on a bench). "Any" target shooting could be seen as subjective as mentioned above, unless the gun is placed in a vice, right? Since even a bench rest has a human component to it, so let's move on from that part, if we can. I'm not shooting from a bench.

I'm going to try the same thing at 20 feet for those that are interested. The goal is to show what real-World guns (not target specific guns) groups look like based on the "same" shooter (still subjective I know).

I've shot 48 rounds in competition at 25/15 & 7 yards, with all 48 round being placed in the 10 ring (the photo is somewhere on this site if you feel like looking it up). But that was with a more accurate 6" revolver. I doubt I could do that with any of these auto's but have yet to try. I tried with a Sig P220 and a Kimber 1911 and shot a high 470 with those autos vs a high of 480 with a solid revolver.

Sorry but this isn't meant to be about me, it's meant to forward information regarding multiple 9mms' with the hope that someone would find this information useful, and I've succeeded, after all this is Calgun and it's expected to have it's naysayers.

I use the distances of 15 or 20ft as I think it's real world scenarios (across a living room, across the street etc). If someone is 75 ft away, I'll try to evade them if I can. I know I can shot at longer distances, again not trying to prove what a great shot I am.

I may add a CZ P-01 next round to keep things interesting (since someone asked). But to be honest, trying to squeeze 4 orange dots across one narrow target will have it's challenges and might just put me back to the 15 ft range.

We will see,

Triple

Last edited by TripleThreat; 11-14-2012 at 2:40 PM..
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Old 11-14-2012, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
naysayers.
I think everyone appreciates your thread, and some have offered realistic criticism. That is pretty good for here.

Quote:
real world scenarios
Unless the bad guy is standing still and has a target pasted over his heart, this test doesn't mean much. 2 inch vs. 3 inch group at 5 yards really doesn't matter. Ergos and reliability, I think, are paramount. I would add manual of arms too, but I won't, since that just gets the Glock guys excited.
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Old 11-14-2012, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleThreat View Post
Sorry but this isn't meant to be about me, it's meant to forward information regarding multiple 9mms' with the hope that someone would find this information useful, and I've succeeded, after all this is Calgun and it's expected to have it's naysayers.
1. When you put stuff out there on the Interwebz, people will critique it. Expect it. Don't take it personal. If you can't handle the extra attention, don't post. As paul0660 said, most of the responses have been very matter-of-fact.

2. By virtue of your title, and in conjunction with the sentence quoted above, it seems you're trying to present some type of objective comparison between the three pistols you've listed. Fact is, your distance is too close and your test methods too subjective for people to get anything objective out of it. Essentially, all you've shown is, "Look, I shot these groups at these distances with these guns!" Which is great, but not very useful. At least not in the way I think you meant it to be.

3. When people compare the mechanical accuracy of one pistol vs. another, it's usually at a minimum of 25 yds. and off a rest of some sort (not necessarily a vise or Ransom rest). A good pistol will group about 2-3" at this range (very much like the groups you posted at 5 yds.). Some target guns will shoot groups that size at 50 yds. (or ten times the distance you shot at). That's the standard. That's what people expect to see when you say something like "9mm Shootout, X vs. Y vs. Z." At 5 yds., pretty much any pistol should shoot nickel-sized groups, revolver or otherwise. Can't tell 'em apart at that distance.

Just some things to keep in mind for your next thread.
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Old 11-14-2012, 3:33 PM
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Per the last 2 post. Fair enough.

I shoot some handguns better than others, maybe it's me? But I tend to believe it's the accuracy of the weapon I'm shooting at the time. All in all, many are correct about bench shooting and I'm not interested in doing that, starting to think my time, ammo and write-up is pretty much a waste of time as many have correctly pointed out.

Thanks for all the comments.

Triple

Last edited by TripleThreat; 12-27-2014 at 8:30 PM..
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Old 11-14-2012, 4:29 PM
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I think you tried to provide a benchmark, based on your personal test. I think it has a lot of validity to it. The main constant is YOU. The variables are the guns.

For the ones who talked smack about anyone can shoot clover leaf at this distance. LET'S SEE THEIR TARGETS.

Come on, I'm waiting. LexLuther, Redcliff, Sac Town... I know Sac Town has talked smack, yet he has MANY reasons why he WON'T POST HIS TARGETS. Hahaha... Really??


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Originally Posted by TripleThreat View Post
Per the last 2 post. Fair enough.

I shoot some handguns better than others, maybe it's the me, but I tend to believe it's the accuracy of the weapon I'm shooting at the time. All in all, many are correct about bench shooting and I'm not interested in doing that, starting to think my time, ammo and write-up is pretty much a waste of time as many have correctly pointed out.

Thanks for all the comments.

Triple
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  #36  
Old 11-14-2012, 4:53 PM
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Buddhabelly,

I'll finish what I started here.

Thanks for the push,

Triple
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Old 11-14-2012, 5:04 PM
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I think it's a pretty informative log. Especially if you personally own the guns you at least you know what you are good with in any case. As people state when looking for a first handgun it's all about your personal preference. Who cares about the gun as long as you can hit what your shooing at lol.
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Old 11-14-2012, 6:15 PM
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I don't know of a modern pistol that isn't "accurate".

I think all the targets look good. I just think you need to challenge yourself more by increasing your heart rate and perhaps timing yourself with each pistol.

Bench rest accuracy is irrelevant IMO if you can't hit the target under pressure. This for me is the true test of how well a pistol fits you. Finding the "write" pistol is part of the fun!
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Old 11-14-2012, 6:16 PM
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I don't know of a modern pistol that isn't "accurate".

I think all the targets look good. I just think you need to challenge yourself more by increasing your heart rate and perhaps timing yourself with each pistol.

Bench rest accuracy is irrelevant IMO if you can't hit the target under pressure. This for me is the true test of how well a pistol fits you. Finding the "right" pistol is part of the fun!
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Old 11-14-2012, 6:24 PM
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That's such bull manure.

Of course modern hand guns are accurate. We're talking about relative accuracy from 1 pistol to another.

You keep talking about shooting under pressure. Let me know if it's under real pressure from ENEMY FIRE. If it's some lame action shooting, spare me.


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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
I don't know of a modern pistol that isn't "accurate".

I think all the targets look good. I just think you need to challenge yourself more by increasing your heart rate and perhaps timing yourself with each pistol.

Bench rest accuracy is irrelevant IMO if you can't hit the target under pressure. This for me is the true test of how well a pistol fits you. Finding the "right" pistol is part of the fun!
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