9mm vs .40

[tacticalcity]

Completely disagree. Here in SoCal, .40 was almost always available at WalMart. 9mm was nowhere to be seen along with .45 ACP.

Well they apparently had all of it. As a retailer who buys direct from the big name national distributors I can tell you the round was VERY hard to find. Even the expensive specialty stuff that is almost always in stock (because few people buy it) was sold out. Where as I never was without 9mm.

[meaty-btz]

This is usually the critical issue that gets overlooked in these dicussions. If somebodys ego drives them towards a round they cannot control effectively then they defeated their purpose. Like you said, the ability to get multiple rounds off in a very short amount of time (fractions of a second) and place those shots effectively is the key to success. There are plenty of people who can shoot a 45ACP extremely effectively. Just as there are plenty of people who can shoot 40S&W extremely effectively. There are also people for whom those rounds are just too much for them and it hinders their training. All that said, if you stick within the 9mm - 45ACP range you should be able to master your firearm with time, effort, and proper training. One just might be a little easier and get you to a level of competency faster. Only way to know which round or even which firearm works best for you is lots of trial and error.

This.

I have put way more rounds down range with my 45 but I still shoot better with most 9s. Even more, not all guns are "equal" not in ability but shooter compatibility. It was a whole new world of training for me to migrate to a sub-compact, even more because it was a 45! Not all guns are the same, let alone, caliber in the equation. People think.. get gun for concealed carry.. that == subcompact for most, but they don't realize the training need that comes up with migrating to such a platform. Just because you shoot generally well does not mean you can use a subcompact as well.

In order of significance in performance: user-training-user_to_gun_fit-caliber. A .22 will kill, a 380 will kill, a 9mm Makarov will kill, a 9mm Parabellum will kill.. etc. Not hitting the target will never kill... well unless they have a heart condition or something and you scare them to death, file that under racking the shotty as far as defense effectiveness.

[walmart_ar15]

Have both!!

Pick a 40 that has conversion barrel for 9mm. Issue solved.

[paul0660]

9mm has been around for a long time. .40 has been around since sissies complained about how much 10mm hurt. I think history tells the tale.

As for availablility, if you expect gun stores to keep your inventory, you will eventually have nothing to shoot. Buy it cheap, pile it deep.

[ap3572001]

Just like I said before.

If You REALLY want to compare , compare GUNS not calibers.

Pick the combination that You shoot the best with .

[gumby]

What 9mm rounds were you using (brand/weight)? I'm curious to know which ammo is questionable in street performance so I can avoid buying it.

It was a long time ago, maybe 25yrs now. I think they were the "new" 147g that would not open on impact. Bullet technology has come a long way but we currently use 180g HST.

[gumby]

Mathematically the .40S&W has the most stopping power vs its actual recoil. So on paper it looks amazing. However, many shooters feel the felt recoil (what you feel rather than what a machine can calculate) is very snappy...too snappy. So while a .45 ACP has more actual recoil, with the right gun it feels easier to manage.

I was a big believer in the .40S&W for a long time, based on the math. But my shooting ability leveled off for a long time and no matter how much effort I put in, I wasn't climbing out of that valley. So I switched to the 9mm per a suggestion of a friend. The less snappy recoil was just the ticket to get me out of that rut and I started making progress again. Recently added a 45 ACP to collection, and I have to agree that while it packs a punch it is more of a push than a snappy flip...which makes it easier to manage at full speed.

So in short, my recommendation is the 9mm.

As for stopping the bad guys, usually training is responsible for failure to stops. It is not a one shot stop world. It takes multiple shots, placed in the right places, preferable vital organs and not all right on top of each other because you want to spread the trauma around so the body can't treat multiple wound tracks as if they are just one.

Something is off in the officer's story above. I am not calling him a liar by any means, just saying maybe the story changed a bit before it got to him or we are missing some key information. The fact that the officers in the above scenario fired only one shot, and not several out of muscle memory because that is how they are trained, tells me we are missing some vital information. Police departs train their officers to draw and fire a controlled pair (2 sighted shots in rapid succession) or non-standard response (3-5 sighted shots in rapid succession) center mass automatically followed by a head shot if there is a failure to stop. This is muscle memory, which is not something you just decide to do differently just because. Even if they did panic, and do things contrary to training they would fire more shots, not less. A shooting where an officer fires only one shot is almost unheard off, unless the suspect has body armor or something unusual and a head-shot is required right from the get go. Seeing several such incidents a row either indicates a training issue, or that we are missing some of the story that probably played a much bigger role than the caliber used. In other words, it doesn't add up with just the information provided.

My dept.(socal sheriff), teaches us to shoot one or two rounds at a time and never a head shot. We would love to have your system! BTW, multiple deputies and multiple shots, not all hitting their target in vital areas. I spoke with some of those deputies but I was not a participant.

[GREASY357]

22,9,40,45 etc all have the ability to kill. i prefer a fatter heavier slower fps bullet for defense but thats just me. i like 40s and 45s because i have shot them the longest and am very comfortable with both.

[shayski]

9mm cheaper .40 s&w is more effective on an intruder. bottom line if its your only home protection gun go .40 if your shooting idpa/ipsc/uspsa or a sheet of paper go 9mm. jack ross ammo is 159$ for 1000 rounds to your door. cant beat that.

[shayski]

my father in law is retired lbpd gang unit. he says his partner unloaded 16 rounds of 9mm hollow point into someone and then he had to come with .45acp to finish him. that was enough form me to only shoot my 9mm at paper, cardboard, and steel.

[Squid]

If you are asking that question, get the 9mm.

I'd only get .40 as 'base gun' if you can get a 9mm drop in barrel for the .40 but not the .40 for the 9mm ( i think Glock is that way ).

9mm....more ammo and nicer to shoot, and until you get all hella bad-*** and grizzled a 9mm should serve you better in a SHTF or 'home defense' situation.


Sure, in CA with 10rd mags it might be tempting to think "I give up less from Caly rules with a .40 or .45 version", but that is wrong thinking IMO.

Like I said "if you are asking that question" 9mm will have plenty of 'oomph' and take some time to get used to, much less 'outgrow'.

[Bobby Hated]

there are so many cases of people taking 9mm rounds to the body and not going down.

i have yet to hear of someone taking .40 or .45 rounds to the body and continuing to fight.

my father in law is retired lbpd gang unit. he says his partner unloaded 16 rounds of 9mm hollow point into someone and then he had to come with .45acp to finish him. that was enough form me to only shoot my 9mm at paper, cardboard, and steel.

[Readytoroll]

I would recommend getting a membership at a local shooting range. A lot of gun ranges maintain a variety of firearms for rental and are free or members to fire. Take your time and fire several different models in both 9mm and .40cal on multiple occasions. It will not take long and you will know what caliber/model that you shoot the most accurately and feel the most comfortable with. In the end you will be happier.

I ended up shooting the Glock 23 the most consistently so that is what I purchased.

[mbt]

What if u hate it? R u willing to commit to a purchase without test trying it?

[Mossy Man]

The entire point of the forum is to educate the noobs. Not make them feel like noobs and pick on them and not to make the old timers feel cool about themselves.

too many elitists on this forum sometimes

thanks for all of your advice on the things i've ever asked and ever will.