40 cal not enough?

[Teletiger7]

shot placement

[Solidmch]

I have a cop friend that shot a guy two weeks ago with his 40cal and one hit the guy in the ribs and the other shot hit him in the shoulder. I know hes not a very good shot but thats not the point....
the point is neither one did any real damage and the guy was in and out of the hospital before the paperwork was done on the situation.
either way he bought a .45 the next day for what its worth.
dont alot of officers carry .40's?

I saw a guy that took 9 from a AK and ran down the street and call 911. He was high on heroin. He lost his arm, but did not die. Point is, if its ones time then thats it. If its not then you can shoot him with a cannon and it will not matter.

[Scotto]

thats pretty sad when you say your leo friend isn't a very good shot.you would think that in his line of work he would try to be alittle more proficient. in a stressful situation thats sounds like a reasonable hit count.how many rounds(or mags) did he go through before he got the 2 hits.

I was just joking - he had a gun pointed in his direction and he took 3 shots. two hit the guy and one hit the car just behind him. like I said in my other post - he did well considering how many people were around and the situation.

[PIRATE14]

I don't know where your buddy lives but in OAK PD, they teach you to unload till the bad guy goes down. They shoot to KILL... Sometimes it takes the whole mag to bring someone down that's on PCP.

I don't think they'll say that to the media......

[BossHogg]

I saw a guy that took 9 from a AK and ran down the street and call 911. He was high on heroin. He lost his arm, but did not die. Point is, if its ones time then thats it. If its not then you can shoot him with a cannon and it will not matter.

Nine 7.62x39's out of a at least 16" rifle barrel and lived????? What did he get shot in his hand nine times at over a 100 yards

[PIRATE14]

Never....really liked the .40.....but I don't knock the guys that lik'em.

Must be ol skool.....45 out of a SIG/HK/1911, is my ticket...

I do use a 9/38/357/380 when I don't want to carry a lot of weight....

Sounds like a good shoot to me......didn't do a spray and pray

There are no magic bullets....that instantly cause death to the offending party......if the SHOOTER can hit the CNS....this would end the fight quickly.....

[Solidmch]

Nine 7.62x39's out of a at least 16" rifle barrel and lived????? What did he get shot in his hand nine times at over a 100 yards

He wore a bag and lost a very large part of his rt leg. He was shot and killed a few years later i dont know the cal of that.

[supersonic]

He wore a bag and lost a very large part of his rt leg. He was shot and killed a few years later i dont know the cal of that.

Was the "bag" for flesh/bone chunk & blood collection, or is "bag" another term for body armour?
S.S.

[ryang]

Just like the saying that any gun (even a .22 derringer) is better than no gun at all, any caliber (within reason) with good shot placement is better than a bigger caliber with poor shot placement.

Another rule of thumb is bigger calibers have more recoil and take longer to get an accurate second shot. In a fubar situation most cops tend to shoot as fast as they can which further degrades accuracy. (This isn't a knock on cops, it's just a statement of fact.)

The first shot went into the ribs and the second shot went higher into the shoulder. It could be argued that with a .45 the second shot might have gone even higher and missed altogether. I doubt the officer paused after the first shot to see if the suspect was still a threat.

I like the .40 S&W. I think it offers a good balance between recoil controllability, terminal energy and rounds in mag.

[mecam]

I think many LE agency are looking into using a .45 G.A.P for more stopping power than a .40 and less recoil than a .45ACP.

[StukaJr]

Actually heavier bullets of the same caliber will penetrate more. Most of the 180gr. .40 loads penetrate fine.

I believe the lesser penetration in heavier bullets was quoted when penetrating intermediate cover like particle board, 20 gauge steel or automotive glass, prior to entering the block of gelatin... FBI tests consider their agents shooting through car doors, glass, doors and other objects. I also believe that slower heavier bullets suffer penetration problems when propelling JHP bullets? Of course, it's often preached by proponents of 185gr JHP .45ACP ammo so I don't know whom to trust anymore - I am looking to do some penetration/expansion tests when the weather allows.

Bullet design increases the chances of increased penetration more than other factors - everything else, various sources contradict each other almost every time. That much I do know though.

And yes, .40 S&W is a fine cartridge but I do favor 165gr loadings, but that's purely in factory loads (need that little extra fps) - that might change once I begin experimenting with handloads.

[ldivinag]

FWIW, hayward PD switch from a sig 226/9mm to a 226 in .40s&w a couple or so years ago.

standard load is the winchester SX/ranger (IIRC).

personally, i started out with a 226 in 9mm and then got a 229 in 40.

i find the 229 more controllable while being a smaller gun than the 226. if and when i can CCW, the 229 is it.

[ljg17]

And yes, .40 S&W is a fine cartridge but I do favor 165gr loadings, but that's purely in factory loads (need that little extra fps) - that might change once I begin experimenting with handloads.

I have heard before to never under any circumstances use handloads for self defense. Does anyone have any real-world experience with the use of handloads being a problem in court??

[Californio]

We just had a Police Shooting with two Officers involved. A total of 18 rounds 40 s&w fired and I believe 17 rounds hit the subject. The subject may have been in an altered state but that sure is alot of rounds needed to put him down. All the facts are not in but I would have thought .45acp rounds have done the job better. The subject had a .45 and was not able to use it so the 40 s&w rounds did take him out of the fight and protect the public and the Officers. I will be interested in reading the final report on the matter.

[Greenspartan117]

.50AE Desert Eagle

Raging Bull in .460... or a Smith in .500 S&W