40 cal not enough?

[CaliTheKid]

If I can I try my best to grab the shotty when i jump out of the radio car.

As far as 9mm, .40 and .45 my expectations would be about the same from all 3. If your shot placement is solid, it boils down your second and third shots and which you are faster following up with.

Between my 9mm and .45 (.40 is not authorized by my department) I am about equal with my follow up shots but I am faster out of the holster and up on target everytime with the 9mm which is why I carry it. Also it has no safety.

[ccwguy]

All the CHP's used to carry 5" or 6" .357s. Better shot placement also with a steel wheel gun. I know I would if I were a LEO

Yes, my choice would be "wheel gun"!

[Sig357]

The point should be that the guy was stopped. IMHO I think he and his .40 did the job. Unless his intention was to kill the guy.

[markymark]

Yes, my choice would be "wheel gun"!

I think police departments have been going away from wheel guns after the Miami shootout.

[thedonger]

Did I miss something?

If they got the Bad Guy and no one else was hurt, who cares if he left the hospital and went to jail in a few hours?

I think you should shoot to kill but, its not failure if the BG does not die. No?

[ccwguy]

The point should be that the guy was stopped. IMHO I think he and his .40 did the job. Unless his intention was to kill the guy.

Shoot to wound? I know nothing of such science. If that were the case, why don't cops just carry sticks? Or just shout "please don't KILL me"?

[markymark]

Did I miss something?

If they got the Bad Guy and no one else was hurt, who cares if he left the hospital and went to jail in a few hours?

I think you should shoot to kill but, its not failure if the BG does not die. No?

We expect our high quality self defense ammo to act a certain way: to penetrate adequately, expand, and kill (reliably). It appears none of this happened in this particular situation.

[neomentat]

It would be very interesting to know how a .357mag or .44mag would have performed in that scenario. The .44 having almost twice the energy and velocity of a .45 or .40. Different results I'm sure.

a .44 mag hit in the same places the rib and shoulder would have gone all the way through leaving a big exit wound and kill the other person in the car down the street. and I'm thinking the .357 will probably go through the guy too.

[thedonger]

I don't think we have enough info to say that it did not work.

A shoulder shot is not going to be a killer in most all cases. (50bmg or the like could be the exception)

A shot in the Ribs.. does not tell where in the ribs, angle, front, side or back, etc.

Of course we also do not know the total number of shots fired, range, clothing, body armor, thru windows or walls, etc.

All we know is he got two shots on target, one could have been a killer but was not. They did get the BG.

A friend of mine (officer) was was involved in a shooting, he fired 14 shots, I should ask how many hit, killed the perp. His partner also fired shots.

If the last 2 or 3 were the money shots then most 45s would leave you short.

[StukaJr]

"I'm a crappy shot so I must buy a .45" is a problem thinking, nothing more... Shot placement is the important factor, especially when dealing with handguns.

.40 S&W in cartridge world is about as informative as "Honda" in describing a car... Various departments issue different ammo - I believe original 180gr bullet was deemed inefficient in FBI penetration tests which gave way to a lighter and faster 165gr loads.

Being out of hospital is not necessary being back to good health - the bullets could have caused enough lasting damage that might require months of physical therapy to correct... US Insurance companies will put people in the street before the sutures are dry - for all you know, he could be bedridden for months to come.

Since each officer scored one hit each, how many shots were fired total? Did the two hits stop the perpetrator and give an impression that the target was no longer a threat? Did the perpetrator surrender or became immobilized? If yes - then isn't that a successful shooting? Was he shot through cover or while wearing heavy clothing? Law Enforcement shootings often involve cars and I rarely read of ribs stopping heavy bullets like that of a .40 S&W - unless the rib shot was "glancing".

[AJD]

I'm not sure it would have been any different had he been shot with a wheel gun in .357/.44mag. Energy with respect to handgun calibers is not always good predictor of wounding potential. I've heard the CHP has actually seen better performance from their .40s&w autos than their old .357 wheel guns.

I believe original 180gr bullet was deemed inefficient in FBI penetration tests which gave way to a lighter and faster 165gr loads.

Actually heavier bullets of the same caliber will penetrate more. Most of the 180gr. .40 loads penetrate fine.

[Sig357]

Did the two hits stop the perpetrator and give an impression that the target was no longer a threat? Did the perpetrator surrender or became immobilized? If yes - then isn't that a successful shooting?

I would say that it was a successful shooting. If the perp dies as a result then so be it. At least the LEO was able to stop the threat and only with 2 shots. A rib shot and shoulder shot in the heat of the moment.. Not bad, not bad at all.

[Scotto]

sorry for the lack of info.....I didnt want to draw to much personal attention to the friend for whatever reason.

the situation was something to the effect of:
bar fight breaks out - got broken up - cops left.
fight breaks out again - same cops go back - make everybody leave.
fight moves down the street - a friend of our cop friend happens to be in same area and calls cop friend on cell phone.
instigator of fight grabs airsoft(or similar fake gun) and points it at the crowd as cop is pulling in the parking lot - cop yells drop the gun and the guy turns and points the gun at the cop.
cop shoots bad guy twice and kills the car.

I think the 40cal (or rather the cop) totally did the job in this situation as others have stated. I even joked with my cop friend that I would have probably started popping off rounds and wouldve hit hit three bystanders and killed five cars before I threw my gun at the bad guy trying to knock him out if he pointed a gun at me. I was just surprised that the shots didnt do more damage. I think that the first shot in the ribs spun the guy around and the follow up hit him in the opposite shoulder above the blade.

[Shane916]

I don't know where your buddy lives but in OAK PD, they teach you to unload till the bad guy goes down. They shoot to KILL... Sometimes it takes the whole mag to bring someone down that's on PCP.

All law enforcement agencies teach "shoot to STOP" not kill..

[ZombieKiller]

Well now he's just gonna blow off people's limbs and make them fly backwards 5 feet or so after hitting them with a .45 .... wink wink....