40 cal not enough?

[Scotto]

I have a cop friend that shot a guy two weeks ago with his 40cal and one hit the guy in the ribs and the other shot hit him in the shoulder. I know hes not a very good shot but thats not the point....
the point is neither one did any real damage and the guy was in and out of the hospital before the paperwork was done on the situation.
either way he bought a .45 the next day for what its worth.
dont alot of officers carry .40's?

[Scotto]

ha ha that was post 187...

[bwiese]

That's actually reasonable shooting in a stressful situation.

Target was likely moving, required a fast response, etc. He made 2 hits, both connected, and you said one was in "ribs" so that's essentially fairly center-mass.

You made no mention of distance, either.

Defensive shooting ain't a leisurely day at the range where you can take time to line up your sights.

Terminal ballistics is a funny thing, too. A 45 may very well - in a given instance - have roughly the same effect as a 40. More likely not, though - which is why lotsa folks like 45ACP.

Yes, many cops carry .40&W guns. And many of these cops have no choice, it's the dept/agency standard.

If your cop friend can pick & choose his caliber and/or brand/model of gun, he's lucky. Some cops get no choice at all, while others can only pick from a very limited list.

[donger]

Well, if he shot the BG in the same spots with a .45 it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

Should have shot him with a 12 gauge.

[AJD]

Handgun rounds in general are not exactly the best at wounding. In terms of terminal ballistics, the .40 and .45 are close enough when using well designed HPs that you really shouldn't feel as though you're losing a lot with a smaller round. As I think donger was saying shot placment may mean much more than the caliber itself.

[ianS]

Was the threat stopped?

Just because in one instance Caliber A didn't work quite up to "expectations" doesn't mean Caliber B would have done any better. There are multiple factors in a gunfight besides just caliber like shot placement, sufficient penetration/expansion to vitals and most importantly the state of mind of the perpetrator. There have been tough looking goblins who get shot with a .22 to a non vital area and they've quit fighting and cases where others get a load of 00 buck or multiple rounds of .45 ACP to COM and they've continued to fight.

All handguns 9mm and up are "adequate". Longuns are "better". And there are some very bad dudes who don't know when to quit no matter what they're shot with.

If a .45 pistol makes him feel better more power to him. But the .40 and your officer friend did their job admirably. He's alive and the bad guys went to the hospital.

[Cato]

A .40 will penetrate better than standard .45s. It sounds like he missed any vital organs. A shot in the shoulder and into a rib is very survivable. A .45 wont do much more for him. I hope he doesnt think a .45 will cause the badguy to fly back like in the movies. I doubt even a 44 mag shot into the same places would have done much better. If he wanted to snuff out the badguy, he should have emptied his magazine into the badguy's chest. One of the rounds would have hit something important. But I guess LEOs are there to save lives: even the lives of murderers and rapists. Our fine judicial system bares the responsibility of rehabilitation.


ha!

[1911whore]

.40 is plenty. Shot placement is key. Hit him in the vitals with a .40 and he is done. I have friends that work yuba swat and have heard of the .40 and the damage done when a suspect had his arm up in front of his chest an officer shot in self defense. The round went through both bones in the wrist entered the chest cavity accompanied by bone frag and the suspect expired on the spot. One shot. dont underestimate the .40

[mecam]

I don't know where your buddy lives but in OAK PD, they teach you to unload till the bad guy goes down. They shoot to KILL... Sometimes it takes the whole mag to bring someone down that's on PCP.

[EricCartmann]

what is going to buy after the .45 does not work?

[mecam]

what is going to buy after the .45 does not work?

.50AE Desert Eagle

[ccwguy]

It would be very interesting to know how a .357mag or .44mag would have performed in that scenario. The .44 having almost twice the energy and velocity of a .45 or .40. Different results I'm sure.

[ljg17]

I used to work at an indoor shooting range and we carried all kinds of trick custom ammo, and I was there for the dreaded "Black Talon Frenzy". It was an interesting time in the firearms business and there was a lot happening post Miami shootout. Like I said we had a lot of frangible ammo from different custom makers etc. and they would send all of their propaganda, videos etc. which when you are stuck there in the shop with no customers you end up doing a lot of reading on the subject. The following is my opinion based on my experience, YMMV. I do not own a .40cal and I really can see no reason to do so, I think they are far less effective than either 9mm or .45acp for most practical handgun scenarios; if however you are doing controlled tests against ballistic gelatin nothing beats it that I am aware of (save perhaps .50 cal). The summarizing characteristic of .40 cal is that it combines a heavy bullet weight with high velocity to give a tremendous amount of power downrange. However the bullets function hydraulically and when the target is wearing heavy or certain types of clothing the clothing can cause a failure to expand. A .40 cal +p loading that fails to expand will leave the typical human target with lethal force endangering those beyond the target. Errant shots or misses are also a serious issue since many police shootings involve numerous rounds expended. 9mm and .45acp have much better characteristics for law enforcement. The recoil profile for .40 is harsh; follow-up shots take longer since recovery is more difficult. I can think of no caliber that is worse for home defense, lots of flash blindness, plenty of lethality left after multiple wall penetration, slower second shot....no thanks. All that being said departments are continuing to do more testing so that incidents like your friends become rarer, however now there are all kinds of different issue ammo out there from 155gr to 180 gr. As soon as a few cases of over-penetrating ammo killing innocents go to court with decent representation and some judgments are let down you will see a lot more consistency in the ammo used and it will be manufacturers doing a lot with bullet design to get expansion without hydraulic assistance.

[ccwguy]

what is going to buy after the .45 does not work?

High Cap magazines?! Or better training!

[BossHogg]

It would be very interesting to know how a .357mag or .44mag would have performed in that scenario. The .44 having almost twice the energy and velocity of a .45 or .40. Different results I'm sure.

All the CHP's used to carry 5" or 6" .357s. Better shot placement also with a steel wheel gun. I know I would if I were a LEO