San Bernardino

[kel-tec-innovations]

Yeah, Detective Logan is intimidating. I felt the same way. I felt like she wasn't buying the idea that I was a good guy. Maybe the tattoos, shaved head and long goatee had some influence.

Yes the infamous detective Logan. Didn't matter I'm Asian, clean shave, no piercing or tattoo, polite, in nicely pressed dress shoes, shirt, pants with tie and a professional business owner. Highly recommended from my local PD and San Bernardino Sheriff deputy vouch for me and being friends and neighbor with San Bernardino Superior court Judge.

Didn't make a difference, she treated me like a guilty criminal like I was just caught robbing an old lady or something. I gave a rant about her somewhere in this thread on page.... I forgot how far back. Just watch out for her.

[Cokebottle]

Highly recommended from my local PD and San Bernardino Sheriff deputy vouch for me and being friends and neighbor with San Bernardino Superior court Judge.

I'm not so sure that local PD isn't more of a hindrance.

One of the questions involved contact with LEO, we covered that.
Then one of the redundant questions, have I ever reported/filed (don't remember the exact term) a crime in San Bernardino County.

Yes.

The look on her face was "What do you know that I don't already know?"
I mentioned the local case, and the way she said "Oh, (city) PD" was almost like how the girls in that Fox show "The OC" said "Oh, Cheeeno"
It was almost a virtual facepalm.

[Cokebottle]

But she's just doing her job.
As mentioned before, I'm sure a LOT of her applicants really have no business consuming oxygen, much less having a concealed weapons permit.
It's her job to hammer everyone to the point that she can figure out who's BSing about what.

She's not paid to be friendly... She's going background investigation. Befriending an applicant would be a conflict of interest.
"Good morning" is all we should expect from her.

[venom12784]

@ cokebottle I completely agree with you. I don't think she should be there with cookies, milk and a bedtime story. I appreciate her no non sense attitude. For me it was just an experience.

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[Daydrmr999]

Okay, so question.... Assuming that Detective Logan moves you on to Livescan, is that an indication that the interview went satisfactorily?

She actually sent me to live scan before my interview. She asked if there was any reason I would be denied a permit, I said no. Live scan was going to be closing for lunch, she gave me the option to go do livescan first and stressed that I needed to be sure I had nothing in my background that I thought would exclude me from getting a permit. I think unless you lied or are a total f up, you will get the permit. If she sent you to live scan after interview, I think you're gtg.


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[Nopal]

Yes the infamous detective Logan. Didn't matter I'm Asian, clean shave, no piercing or tattoo, polite, in nicely pressed dress shoes, shirt, pants with tie and a professional business owner. Highly recommended from my local PD and San Bernardino Sheriff deputy vouch for me and being friends and neighbor with San Bernardino Superior court Judge.

Didn't make a difference, she treated me like a guilty criminal like I was just caught robbing an old lady or something. I gave a rant about her somewhere in this thread on page.... I forgot how far back. Just watch out for her.

Yeah, she does that. I think some of these officers are used to talking to perps and criminals all the time so that's just their manner. I like to call that a "proctologist's view of the world."

I've been at the receiving end of her accusations way back when she was just plain Deputy Logan. If there is anything she doesn't like she'll accuse you of what sound like horrible things, but IMO she is more loud than intimidating. To her credit, she is both direct and quick to back off if she realizes she's not getting anywhere or if you clarify or point out flaws in her thinking. She's not a bad person and she's not your enemy. She's just a general enemy of bull**** and she likes to use bull**** to combat it (kind of like fighting fire with fire). She throws bull**** at you to find out what sticks.

Her job is to "weed out" people who shouldn't be carrying and I generally don't fault her for approaching her job with (quite a bit of) zeal. I simply question a policy in which someone in her role is actually necessary. Discretion can be abused and has been at times (particularly with this Sheriff's office), so if a background check is clean and there is no arrest record (or is very minor), the "pro 2A" sheriff's office shouldn't be injecting personal discretion to what should be a straightforward, constitutional matter.

Oh, and to those saying that there are people applying who have no business carrying, there are a couple of names of ex-calguns members with SBSD concealed weapon permits that jump to mind and that earned their banned status to this board with quite a bit of ease, so an interview is far from an ideal tool for weeding out folks, and the constitution is supposed to be an ideal tool to prevent that sort of weeding out.

[venom12784]

Can someone explain to me why we are asked if I have any affiliation with biker gangs.

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[Nopal]

Can someone explain to me why we are asked if I have any affiliation with biker gangs.

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Because biker gangs are considered criminal organizations.

[JDFRotten]

But she's just doing her job.
As mentioned before, I'm sure a LOT of her applicants really have no business consuming oxygen, much less having a concealed weapons permit.
It's her job to hammer everyone to the point that she can figure out who's BSing about what.

She's not paid to be friendly... She's going background investigation. Befriending an applicant would be a conflict of interest.
"Good morning" is all we should expect from her.

Reflecting on that experience, I figured that she was trying to push buttons to see what kind of reaction she could get. My genuine reaction was "Deer in the headlights."

[Nopal]

Reflecting on that experience, I figured that she was trying to push buttons to see what kind of reaction she could get. My genuine reaction was "Deer in the headlights."

Kind of crazy to think that your rights to bear arms may depend on your reaction to someone unexpectedly trying to push your buttons, hu?

[INCINR8]

Because biker gangs are considered criminal organizations.

They don't ask about the Russian mafia.. I found it odd also.

[gwolff]

Kind of crazy to think that your rights to bear arms may depend on your reaction to someone unexpectedly trying to push your buttons, hu?

I do think that how you react to having your buttons pressed gives her insight in to your temper and attitude.

[JDFRotten]

I do think that how you react to having your buttons pressed gives her insight in to your temper and attitude.

I really didn't have a problem with it. It just threw me off balance. I suppose that's a good thing. There was that attorney who was denied a permit and then confirmed the sheriff's decision by having a meltdown at the CCW office. Cops have a pretty good nose for people. Not perfect, but good nonetheless.

[Nopal]

I do think that how you react to having your buttons pressed gives her insight in to your temper and attitude.

I don't dispute that. I am also sure that some people that are surprised by that treatment and not used to that sort of thing may react strangely or even badly, while some people used to being in trouble and/or used to dealing with cops, for example, may react very mildly and come across as level headed. In fact, from what I understand your average functional psychopath is very good at this so it takes way more than a quick interview to spot one.

The point is that, however you react to an unexpected grilling may not correlate at all to how you react in a life-death situation involving firearms. Does the reaction say something about your character? Yes, in all likelihood. Can that reaction be used as a strong indication of a flaw so deep as to potentially deny someone of their 2a rights? Doubtful. More to the point, should said rights be subject to a bureaucrat's individual interpretation? We're talking no less than the right to defend oneself here, not a popularity contest or a like/unlike vote on an Internet forum.

[Nopal]

I really didn't have a problem with it. It just threw me off balance. I suppose that's a good thing. There was that attorney who was denied a permit and then confirmed the sheriff's decision by having a meltdown at the CCW office. Cops have a pretty good nose for people. Not perfect, but good nonetheless.

You mean Birdt? He's suing the Sheriff's office and apparently it's not going too badly for him because the sheriff's office also lied/changed their story about why/how he was denied. Character flaws are everywhere, even on the gate keepers. He's not a very good lawyer, yet has gotten far because of the sheriff's office inability to follow court directions. Not excusing the supposed meltdown at all, but that says something about the level of frustration that someone trying to get to the bottom of a denial must deal with when even a Federal Court has a hard time getting the sheriff's office to play by the rules.


Edit: To me the supposed "confirmation" via meltdown is an indictment of the lack of professionalism and overbearing attitude of the department as much as it was a lack of control by Mr. Birdt. From what I understand of him he's not very personable, but let's not forget that at the time the SBSD office had (and still has a few) blatantly illegal policies including a one year in-county residency requirement, their own version of an application, letters of recommendation requirements, denials "at will," a policy of not releasing any details or files regarding denials, etc., plus well-meaning people that may inadvertently escalate a situation, such as the aforementioned detective.