Calguns Reloading clinic invitation for those that want to learn.

[stilly]

Just curious.

When we are in the reloading forum we talk about outreach to different groups of people.

One thing that I have noticed is that when I have seen people show up to the Calgun reloading clinics, it is usually a bunch of guys like single guys or a pair of friends or maybe a son and dad that show up.

I had asked about inviting other folks, maybe throw an invite out in the LEO forum and in the Ladies forum just to be friendly and see who shows up.

Anyways, we are gearing up for another one in about a month or so and I was wondering if anyone here reloads or wants to learn if they are on the fence. If it is a positive response then I will post a new thread when we get a date.

I was wondering too though, is reloading a guy only thing or are there a lot of women that reload or maybe afraid of whatever for whatever reasons?

[Off the Roster]

ive pondered it, but atm i can buy ammo almost as cheaply as what it would cost me to reload without having to chase components. factor in the equipment investment and the pricing smooths out even more. i also do not have a viable location for a reloading area, nor do my shooting interests require "specialized" ammo.

is this a skill i would not mind possessing - certainly. is it high on my list of priorities because i would utilize it - not so much.

[LittleOldLady]

ive pondered it, but atm i can buy ammo almost as cheaply as what it would cost me to reload without having to chase components. factor in the equipment investment and the pricing smooths out even more. i also do not have a viable location for a reloading area, nor do my shooting interests require "specialized" ammo.

is this a skill i would not mind possessing - certainly. is it high on my list of priorities because i would utilize it - not so much.

Same here, I have no place to re-load, nor do I want to invest in all the components right now.
If I shot enough, for example, once or twice a week to make it cost effective, then yes I would.

Would I like to know how to re-load? Yes, it is a great skill to know, maybe someday when and if I have the extra money.

[HighLander51]

Unless you are going to shoot over a 1,000 rounds a month, on a regular basis, then continue to buy new ammo, if, and when it is available. There are up front costs for reloading, the press, the dies, scale, calipers, case gage, tumbler, media, and the re-occuring cost of primers, powder, bullets, cases(unless you have saved thousands up). However, once you buy the equipment, which pretty much lasts forever, you will reload for about 1/3 the cost of new ammo, depending on the type of bullets you want to shoot, full jacketed being about 2-3 times the price of moly lead. But here is the secret of reloading, you won't save any money at all! You will just spend the same amount of $$$ to shoot a whole bunch more rounds... Of course the time spent reloading is the same as watching TV. If you make $300 per hour, buy ammo, if you make $30 per hour, then reload.

[stilly]

Unless you are going to shoot over a 1,000 rounds a month, on a regular basis, then continue to buy new ammo, if, and when it is available. There are up front costs for reloading, the press, the dies, scale, calipers, case gage, tumbler, media, and the re-occuring cost of primers, powder, bullets, cases(unless you have saved thousands up). However, once you buy the equipment, which pretty much lasts forever, you will reload for about 1/3 the cost of new ammo, depending on the type of bullets you want to shoot, full jacketed being about 2-3 times the price of moly lead. But here is the secret of reloading, you won't save any money at all! You will just spend the same amount of $$$ to shoot a whole bunch more rounds... Of course the time spent reloading is the same as watching TV. If you make $300 per hour, buy ammo, if you make $30 per hour, then reload.

QFT.

But when times like this show no ammo for some guns, then it is a good time to learn to reload. I paid $42.xx from wallyworld for a box of 44 magnum. 50 rounds.

I make more powerful shells then what they sold me AND they are quite safe (pressure sign speaking of course) and when I shoot them at the indoor range with my deagle it makes folks jump 4 lanes on each side. Even outside they have tremendous power and noise. I just like to see how much farther I can push them. I will never be able to buy them in the stores, and they cost me $9.70 to make a box of 50... When that 40k PSI releases it literally brings tears to my eyes... Like eating jalapenos... Oh yes, and a smile to my face...

And yes, I have put 2000 rounds of 44 mag through this gun now but there is no way that I would have done that by buying all my ammo in the stores.

.45 is even cheaper and 9mm is almost the cost of .22lr pre panic...

My setup cost me less than $600 after I was done buying everything I needed/wanted. I always buy stuff though when it is on sale too... The size of my setup is not very big, all you really need is a 1'x1' portion of a bench or table for the press and the rest is really more for storage and stuff.

Well, it still does not hurt to come to a clinic and watch, and learn and then when you get to make 50 pistol rounds yourself (with guidance and watching eyes) that is when the bug bites ya...

[mark501w]

You don't need a lot of room. When everybody panicked & I couldn't find .22's I switched back to reloading . I had some components stuck away & went shooting. Still shooting still haven't found any .22's.

[HighLander51]

QFT.



Well, it still does not hurt to come to a clinic and watch, and learn and then when you get to make 50 pistol rounds yourself (with guidance and watching eyes) that is when the bug bites ya...

I had to look up the meaning of QFT, thought it was like Tru Dat! Anyway, yes it can only help to learn reloading, it's just I dislike reloading as much as I dislike cleaning guns. All that is just to get to the shooting part... "Are you ready?" "Stand by" beep!

[2meterB]

I taught my wife. She reloads for her 9mm.

[Pally]

Hmm...I would be interested if I had extra time and extra space. The start up costs do not bother me. Eventually, I would like to know more about the process.

[stilly]

Well folks, if ANYONE wants to get on the list, here is the ACTUAL SIGNUP thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=889027

I think we are shooting for the 16th which is in about 2 weeks and it will be in Riverside.

[Asphodel]

If I may, I'd like to offer a couple of minor but important details.......

One of the expensive 'first cost' tooling investments for any reloading is a reliable dial caliper with which to accurately measure case length. There are several 'brand X' versions cheaply available, which are simply no good, that is, they may work for a while, but then the mechanism perishes, or becomes inaccurate.

The only good ones are the Swiss 'Tesa' make, also sold/marked as Brown&Sharpe, the Swiss 'Etalon' make, and the American made 'Starrett' make (and read the fine print, Doug Starrett, whom we once saw as a hero, has been having 'knock-offs' of his tools made in China.....so a person has a choice of cheap Chinese-made Starrett-marked 'tools', or the 'made in USA' real article, which isn't so cheap......but is reliable.

(in all fairness to Mr. Starrett, its been said that he had no choice but to have some items made in China, this having to do with some form of political pressure......I don't know the truth of that, but it could be 'plausible'.)

The Japanese 'Mitutoyo' make is a 'gambling device'......some are good quality, some are not.....one may 'get lucky'....or maybe not.

(Yes, I know, one can get a best quality vernier caliper these days, in the Starrett, Brown&Sharpe, or Tumico makes, and very cheaply.......a good one is actually more reliable than any dial caliper, but.....I can tell you from long experience.....even in good light, doing inspection of a large quantity of units with a vernier leads to eye-strain, which leads to the 'headache from hell'. You can find best quality vernier calipers, of the later style fifty thou 'long vernier', surprisingly cheaply on ebay, which will do the work well, but beware of the old style 25 thou 'short vernier'.....guaranteed bad eye-strain after the first couple dozen parts.)

The reason you need reliable dial calipers with which to accurately check case length, for pistol calibers, is that most have a 'crimp' needed to force the case, ever so slightly, into a crimping groove in the bullet.

This is most commonly done in a 'seat and crimp' die, but some die sets will have a seperate 'crimp' die.

If the cases are not of a uniform length, the crimp die will either not crimp some cartridges, or will over-crimp some, slightly expanding them so that they will not fit in the chamber.

The simplest way to deal with this is to note the published 'minimum case length' in the reloading manuals, and use a case trimmer to trim all your cases to that length. Check one of every few cases to be certain that the stop on the case trimmer hasn't 'crept', and the length is uniform.

Deburring the sharp edges of freshly trimmed cases is obvious, the suitable deburring tools are inexpensive. Likewise the little tool for cleaning the primer ash from the primer pockets, altho many omit this step for 'plinking rounds'. A simple visual inspection of the flash hole in the primer pocket to verify that its not blocked by a bit of tumbler grit takes but a second.

Checking case length, and trimming as needed is important with rifle cases, too. The cases will stretch when fired, some more than others.

A too-long rifle case may be 'compressed' against the bullet by the chamber, leading to an 'over-pressure' situation, which isn't good, to 'put it mildly'.....play safe by knowing the case is within spec. For some cases, such as the ones used in Winchester and Marlin lever rifles (25-35, 30-30, 32Spl, 38-55, and some others), a crimp into the bullet cannelure is necessary, so those must be trimmed to uniform length for a uniform crimp.

Sounds complicated?.....well, yes, in a way, but not nearly so much so as learning to drive a car......and driving a car is easy, right? You take care to drive your car or truck safely, so take care to reload safely......its really not at all difficult, after a little bit of 'learning-curve'.

Enough for today?

cheers

Carla

[stilly]

If I may, I'd like to offer a couple of minor but important details.......

One of the expensive 'first cost' tooling investments for any reloading is a reliable dial caliper with which to accurately measure case length. There are several 'brand X' versions cheaply available, which are simply no good, that is, they may work for a while, but then the mechanism perishes, or becomes inaccurate.

The only good ones are the Swiss 'Tesa' make, also sold/marked as Brown&Sharpe, the Swiss 'Etalon' make, and the American made 'Starrett' make (and read the fine print, Doug Starrett, whom we once saw as a hero, has been having 'knock-offs' of his tools made in China.....so a person has a choice of cheap Chinese-made Starrett-marked 'tools', or the 'made in USA' real article, which isn't so cheap......but is reliable.

(in all fairness to Mr. Starrett, its been said that he had no choice but to have some items made in China, this having to do with some form of political pressure......I don't know the truth of that, but it could be 'plausible'.)

The Japanese 'Mitutoyo' make is a 'gambling device'......some are good quality, some are not.....one may 'get lucky'....or maybe not.

(Yes, I know, one can get a best quality vernier caliper these days, in the Starrett, Brown&Sharpe, or Tumico makes, and very cheaply.......a good one is actually more reliable than any dial caliper, but.....I can tell you from long experience.....even in good light, doing inspection of a large quantity of units with a vernier leads to eye-strain, which leads to the 'headache from hell'. You can find best quality vernier calipers, of the later style fifty thou 'long vernier', surprisingly cheaply on ebay, which will do the work well, but beware of the old style 25 thou 'short vernier'.....guaranteed bad eye-strain after the first couple dozen parts.)

The reason you need reliable dial calipers with which to accurately check case length, for pistol calibers, is that most have a 'crimp' needed to force the case, ever so slightly, into a crimping groove in the bullet.

This is most commonly done in a 'seat and crimp' die, but some die sets will have a seperate 'crimp' die.

If the cases are not of a uniform length, the crimp die will either not crimp some cartridges, or will over-crimp some, slightly expanding them so that they will not fit in the chamber.

The simplest way to deal with this is to note the published 'minimum case length' in the reloading manuals, and use a case trimmer to trim all your cases to that length. Check one of every few cases to be certain that the stop on the case trimmer hasn't 'crept', and the length is uniform.

Deburring the sharp edges of freshly trimmed cases is obvious, the suitable deburring tools are inexpensive. Likewise the little tool for cleaning the primer ash from the primer pockets, altho many omit this step for 'plinking rounds'. A simple visual inspection of the flash hole in the primer pocket to verify that its not blocked by a bit of tumbler grit takes but a second.

Checking case length, and trimming as needed is important with rifle cases, too. The cases will stretch when fired, some more than others.

A too-long rifle case may be 'compressed' against the bullet by the chamber, leading to an 'over-pressure' situation, which isn't good, to 'put it mildly'.....play safe by knowing the case is within spec. For some cases, such as the ones used in Winchester and Marlin lever rifles (25-35, 30-30, 32Spl, 38-55, and some others), a crimp into the bullet cannelure is necessary, so those must be trimmed to uniform length for a uniform crimp.

Sounds complicated?.....well, yes, in a way, but not nearly so much so as learning to drive a car......and driving a car is easy, right? You take care to drive your car or truck safely, so take care to reload safely......its really not at all difficult, after a little bit of 'learning-curve'.

Enough for today?

cheers

Carla

I got this...

Now, I am absolutely perplexed as to where you got your info and WHY you posted it like you did. Some of it could not be further from the truth. BAHAH! I get it now. You cut and pasted it out of order from some online website. ROTFLMAO!

Please allow me to clear up a few items here.

The most expensive part is the press. The press can cost anywhere from $50 -$2500+ depending on what you want to invest in it. The presses used at the reloading clinics tend to run around the price of $50-$200 but they are all similar in nature (mostly) and not many folks have the expensive ones. I am sure Highlander has a couple, but I would expect him to. He is a high volume shooter who competes IIRC. The more expensive presses are more costly because they are geared for maximum output in the smallest amount of time. meaning they can make 1000+ rounds an hour. I paid $107 for my press and it allows me to make a round every 15 seconds if I keep a rhythm and steady pace with all 4 holes. Else if I only use two I can make twice as much.

I am surprised you did not mention a scale. Some scales for reloading cost as much as $400+ but most folks do not need them. MOST folks seem to enjoy their smaller beam scales that run about $100 or less. I tell EVERYONE to get the Gemini 20 from Amazon.com (made by American Weigh) because it measures 20 grams and it is a milligram scale which means that it will convert to grains and display grains by .02 units. That is good because 99.9% of the time reloaders ONLY need to know .1 grains. This scale is a great scale that carries a backlit lcd panel, tare ability, a 10 year warranty, and runs on a pair of AAA batteries and the total is about $20. Yes, I said $20. I use it and have used it for the past 2.5 years and I trust it very much.

NOW, a word or two about calipers. Sorry, but Starret and the Japanese Mitus are nice, but not needed or used. In reloading, you only REALLY need to measure to .001 and not usually beyond. For this reason, the Harbor Freight $15.00 calipers work FINE as MOST reloaders will tell you. I did not want HF quality so I ordered some digital calipers from Ebay for around $25 and they have been fine, but the HF look kinda similar, but different colors and buttons. Even Dillon, sells Digital Calipers that cost around $80 but look IDENTICAL to the HF ones. Which we all do wonder about by the way... So anyways, calipers only need to cost you $15, $9 on sale at HF.

As for Pistol caliber crimp. Wow... There are TWO types of crimps for pistol ammo, Roll crimp and Taper crimp. Taper crimp is applied to the shell at the end of the down stroke of the press. The same with Roll crimp. The difference between the two is that the Taper Crimp is there to close up the end of the cartridge and hold on to that bullet. (Before you can seat a bullet, you must FLARE or open up the mouth of the case so that it will seat a bullet nicely without shaving off the sides.) Then the die applies the crimp to close it back and make it tight.

Roll crimps apply to revolver or straight walled cartridges. Roll crimps do the same thing, except they tend to dig in a bit more and instead of ending straight they are slightly curved inwards. But the die DOES THAT AUTOMATICALLY. Every die set that has a bullet seater also has a crimper built in (mostly). There is also a thing called a FCD or Factory Crimp Die that Lee puts out that supports and resizes the shell as you crimp. This is for those folks that do not know how to crimp properly and end up messing up their crimps or crimping too hard and buckling their shells. If they took the time to learn reloading, they would know better. We get those folks all the time in the reloading forum and we educate them on how to set their equipment properly.

MOST cases (pistol) are the same or similar length. Obviously .38 and .357, although shot from the same gun are at different lengths. And yes, sometimes if you set up your equipment on a shell that is too short and you get a longer one, you WILL overcrimp but once you see what happened, you just reset your die or back it off a partial turn. Nothing big there. This mostly happens in 44 mag or ANYTHING like that where the brass might have been modified to use a different projectile. Albeit, while being rare, it DOES happen. I have a lot of 44 mag brass that is short due to it being fired from Hornady Leverlution or FTX rounds. It was about 1-2mm shorter from the factory. Most reloaders would simply put those aside or toss them for other shells.

Trimming cases is ONLY done when you full-length resize bottle necked cartridges like the .357 sig, 7.62x25 Tokarev, 7.62x39, or .223. And just about EVERY rifle case that has a shoulder. But for 9mm, .45, .40, .380, .44, .357, .38 ETC, 98.9% of reloaders will tell you they have NEVER trimmed those cases and plan to NEVER trim them. BUT, every now and then a bad case gets in somewhere and you might need to trim it or just toss it. I am up to about 4000 + reloaded .44 mag, 9mm, and .45 ACP and I have not trimmed once yet. But I bought a trimmer for 9mm when I got into reloading because SOMEWHERE I read that you needed to trim your brass... Boy what a waste of money that was. Oh well, better to not need it and have it then to not have it and need it right?

All of this stuff is addressed in the reloading clinic. When people show up we aim to entertain and educate them and then allow them to build ammo on the presses so that by the end of the day, they know a LOT more about it and they can make the decision to get into reloading or not. It is up to them. We put no pressure on them or force them to buy anything. But they do get to build their own ammo and we guide them through each step and when they go out to the range with THEIR ammo that THEY made and shoot it, that is when the real magic starts.

As for money on getting into reloading? Well, yeah, you can CERTAINLY spend a LOT. But you can also spend very little and still make excellent ammunition.

I hope I have cleared up a few things. Ask any reloader where they got their calipers and many will say their HF ones have provided years of quality reloads for them. Starretts would be really neat to have, but at the end of the day, my $25 dollar set performs the same. And I have only been doing this now for over 2.5 years...

If you had posted this in the reloading forum the few that did not laugh would have turned on the flames. BTW, the calipers breakdown did make me laugh. I do not think that anyone that I know of has ever done THAT much research on their calipers. This is my research, does it feel good. Yes. Does it zero out when I press the button? Yes. Is the accuracy repeatable and truthful? Yes. DONE, in the cart and moving on. I also have an analog/dial caliper set that I paid $35 for and they were supposed to be decent quality but I have never used them. I have them in case I need them and my battery is dead in the other one. They are not Starretts or Mitus but I really do not care as long as they stay together and work for me. BTW, I have yet to blow myself up or even get a squib.


Rather then comparing reloading to learning to drive, I think it is better suited towards learning to SCUBA dive. Yeah, you can be a dummy and screw around and get yourself BENT or you can learn the right way from certified professionals and enjoy the surroundings and processes and get to dive to 25' and have a friend photograph you stuffing an octopus in your mouth...

[Capybara]

I am going to pile onto this thread since Stilly has already extended an invitation, we are looking to sign up students for our next two reloading clinics. We had a clinic last weekend on Super Bowl Sunday and we had our first female reloader, our first couple who both reloaded and our first female observer (she said she is coming back next clinic to reload too!). We are very eager for the Ventura County Reloading Club to not be a boys club, we welcome women to get into every aspect of the shooting sports. As Stilly has so eloquently pointed out, reloading can save you money, but it is also about fine tuning your ammo, creating ammo that is much more precise and accurate than factory ammo too. If you like detail, are results oriented and want to feel a sense of pride in creating the ammo that you shoot, reloading is a great skill set and hobby on it's own. Many shooters who get into reloading like it more than actually shooting because it is something you can do in your PJs, in your garage, in your living room, if you like, rather than having to load up all of the guns and drive long distances to the range.

We are working on bringing on our first female instructor, we welcome women to come check out our clinic with open arms. We have a really good time, we eat Bacon Cheeseburgers, and the social aspect of the clinics is just as fun as the hands-on part of reloading. You will learn so much about the shooting sports through reloading. Please join us, PM me with any questions or to sign up or sign up in the thread over here on post #245 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=816190&page=7

[LittleOldLady]

Next time there is a class either on a Sunday or Tuesday near Tracy Ca, I would like to learn this craft.....

[Capybara]

LittleOldLady, keep an eye out on these threads and you will see upcoming reloading clinics:

San Francisco Bay Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=805506
East Bay Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=809009
Sacramento Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=771013&page=6

Good luck!