Did I get hosed? $85 PPT

[Mike's Custom]

When the Demo law was put in place we FFLs were told at a DOJ seminar that we could charge for the demonstration. To me it seems kind of stupid but I thought the same thing when car dealers started charging DOC FEES back in the 70s. I figured if you were not making a profit on the cars sold hten you shouldn't be in business. Same for firearms. But as more people moan and groan about a FFL trying to make a living, I know of no FFLs that got rich from selling firearms, some FFLs work the system. The more laws a FFL has to deal with the more expensive it gets. If the State of CA can charge $25 to process a DROS why can't a FFL charge a small fee for doing the DROS process and file storage of all records? Like anything else, a customer will buy where they get value and that is not always the cheapest place.

[tacticalcity]

Looking at the OP, the only charge that is suspect is...

"Safety Demo - $25"

The rest of the charges seem proper. They can and should charge for the handgun safety test. There are expenses involved. But a safety demo should be free.

Remember to keep that card they gave you so you won't have to take/pay for that test the next time you purchase a handgun.

[Argonaut]

The problem might be the definition of PPT. I was charged 100.00 a couple of months ago for a "PPT" from so Cal to me here in Nor Cal. I asked about it and my FFL said unless the seller was standing in the store, it was not a PPT but a transfer like a gun coming from out of state, even though we has all the seller's information, signature, and Drivers licence. The recipt also showed the 25.00 charge seperatly and then a 75.00 service charge.

[kemasa]

It is not a PPT unless BOTH parties go to the FFL (not required to be there at the same time).

[CSACANNONEER]

The problem might be the definition of PPT. I was charged 100.00 a couple of months ago for a "PPT" from so Cal to me here in Nor Cal. I asked about it and my FFL said unless the seller was standing in the store, it was not a PPT but a transfer like a gun coming from out of state, even though we has all the seller's information, signature, and Drivers licence. The recipt also showed the 25.00 charge seperatly and then a 75.00 service charge.

The shop was correct that your deal was NOT a PPT. They had the right to charge you whatever they wanted to for a dealer/internet/mail order transfer. $75 +DROS is probably about the median price for all FFLs in the state. Some charge a lot more and some charge a lot less.

[The right]

In my case, we were both in the store at the same time.

[jtmkinsd]

When the Demo law was put in place we FFLs were told at a DOJ seminar that we could charge for the demonstration. To me it seems kind of stupid but I thought the same thing when car dealers started charging DOC FEES back in the 70s. I figured if you were not making a profit on the cars sold hten you shouldn't be in business. Same for firearms. But as more people moan and groan about a FFL trying to make a living, I know of no FFLs that got rich from selling firearms, some FFLs work the system. The more laws a FFL has to deal with the more expensive it gets. If the State of CA can charge $25 to process a DROS why can't a FFL charge a small fee for doing the DROS process and file storage of all records? Like anything else, a customer will buy where they get value and that is not always the cheapest place.

Yes...we can charge for the demo...always thought it was funny to charge someone to watch them load and unload their weapon...which is why I don't charge for it...but that is on dealer transfers...not PPTs...If they wanted it to be applicable to PPTs they would have, and should have changed PC 12082 to include it.

[The right]

Thanks jtmkinsd for providing the appropriate penal code.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12082.html

The code reads:
The purchaser or transferee or
person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay
a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm, and no other fee
may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a
firearm conducted pursuant to this section, except for the applicable
fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 12076, 12076.5, and
12088.9 and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set
forth in Section 12805. Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a
dealer from charging a smaller fee. The dealer may not charge any
additional fees.

According to this, it appears apparent that they were in direct violation of the code. I looked at the exceptions and nothing appeared to be of any influence. If anyone else has anything that supercedes or alters this please contribute.

[RobG]

Thanks jtmkinsd for providing the appropriate penal code.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12082.html

The code reads:
The purchaser or transferee or
person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay
a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm, and no other fee
may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a
firearm conducted pursuant to this section, except for the applicable
fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 12076, 12076.5, and
12088.9 and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set
forth in Section 12805. Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a
dealer from charging a smaller fee. The dealer may not charge any
additional fees.

According to this, it appears apparent that they were in direct violation of the code. I looked at the exceptions and nothing appeared to be of any influence. If anyone else has anything that supercedes or alters this please contribute.

Looks like some FFL's need to review the penal code.

[Mike's Custom]

Looks to me like they are not charging more then the PPT allows. What ehy are charging for is something outside the acutal PPT $10 fee. I don't charge anything extra and most don't but as long as it is not called a PPT FEE. It is like requiring a PPT'er to purchase a $20 lock that cost $2. The best thing to do is not use a FFL that doesn't treat you right. For me, I try to give the best service I can. I have already realized I am not going to get rich being a FFL but at least I don't fall into any of Obamas tax brackets.

[battleship]

Well are you going to go back there or call them up and get your $25 back, im shocked they seem like a great store, though ive never done a PPT there.

This is the first ive ever heard of this, so im wondering just how long they have been doing this to customers.

You might of got some employee pocketing $25 for himself, unlikely but no improbable.

[BoJackUSMC]

wow, that is one expensive transfer they got going on there. They might charge you additional $10 for holding the gun for you j/k. I think you should give them a call and try to get no less than $25 back from them.

[jtmkinsd]

Demand a refund of the $25 for the safe handling demo. Worst case scenario is he tells you to bug off...then I'd file a small claims case against him...bring the PC into court, and I guarantee you, you will get a judgement. The last sentence of section (a) of 12082 says it all..."The dealer may not charge any
additional fees."

The PC says for PPTs a dealer can charge for the following things: $10 for dealer, PCs 12076, 12076.5 and 12088.9 are all fees included in the DROS, $25. PC 12805 is for the HSC card $25. It's very plainly stated. So the absolute maximum a dealer can legally charge for a PPT is $60, assuming you do not already have an HSC card or exemption.

[trashman]

The scammers were:

Campbell Sportsmen Supply
1536 Camden Avenue, Campbell, CA

HA - as soon as I read "safety demo" I knew it was them.

--Neill

[trashman]

This is the first ive ever heard of this, so im wondering just how long they have been doing this to customers.

At least 2-3 years. I've done a few PPT's there (usually at the seller's request).

Tabor's in San Bruno has (sometimes) tacked on a $15 "paperwork" fee to their gun sales...can't remember what they call it but I've paid it at least a couple of times (though not for my most recent purchase).

--Neill