What would be a 'fair' PPT charge?

[CSACANNONEER]

Any efficient and competent FFL should be able to complete a PPT in ten minutes or less. It is not rocket science! So, since they are sitting in their shop anyway, their labor cost is already covered. Now, making $10 per PPT is the eqivalent of $60/hr. This is close to most shops hourly repair rates already. Does it really need to go up at all? I think that FFLs who don't like doing PPTs really need to re-evaluate their choosen careers. Not many people can make $60/hr with zero initial investment (yea, the shop overhead and labor costs should not count since, those costs are required to run the bussiness with or without PPTs).

[PolishMike]

$0.00

. Guns are VERY lucrative; more-so than most people know. For the right of entering this profitable business, store owners are stuck doing PPTs. Period.

You, Sir, have never worked or managed a gun store.


I don't mind doing PPT's because it brings people in. Would I do it for free? Hell no. You only see a quarter of the work that goes into a PPT when you are in the store.

You do not see the store add it to there book, store it, do all the other associated paperwork.


With the internet anyone can go online and order anything I have in my store for my cost. I already lose money on the $10 PPT but at least it stops some of the bleeding.

[PolishMike]

Any efficient and competent FFL should be able to complete a PPT in ten minutes or less. It is not rocket science! So, since they are sitting in their shop anyway, their labor cost is already covered. Now, making $10 per PPT is the eqivalent of $60/hr. This is close to most shops hourly repair rates already. Does it really need to go up at all? I think that FFLs who don't like doing PPTs really need to re-evaluate their choosen careers. Not many people can make $60/hr with zero initial investment (yea, the shop overhead and labor costs should not count since, those costs are required to run the bussiness with or without PPTs).

What you guys don't get is that you only see about 30% of the work involved in a PPT when you are at the store. 10 minutes for everything involved is a pipe dream.

[CSACANNONEER]

I was charged $50 on my last transfer off an internet purchase. Pretty standard in this area. If there was a store around that would waive that fee if I bought $75 worth of ammo or accessories at retail price from them, I'd gladly buy into that deal, and I'd also run every gun I purchased through that store.

I don't own a business, but it seems like such an arrangement would benefit all parties.

Anyone want to tell me why that would be a bad deal for either side?

So, if you bought $75 worth of ammo, the shop would profit about $20. Is that really what you think their time and license is worth? $50-$60 +DROS is pretty much standard here for FFL transfer fees. But, this thread is about PPT fees which are regulated by the state.

[Matt C]

What is the difficulty in the concept of this? $10 per transaction is not enough to cover expenses...government says it's a crime to charge more than that. End result, if all I did was offer PPT's I would be out of business in very short order.

It's fine if you want to purchase extra's when you are in the shop...I will tell you MOST do not...they become irrate, even belligerent at the costs they already have to pay.

What gun store do you own?

[E Pluribus Unum]

What is the difficulty in the concept of this? $10 per transaction is not enough to cover expenses...government says it's a crime to charge more than that. End result, if all I did was offer PPT's I would be out of business in very short order.

It's fine if you want to purchase extra's when you are in the shop...I will tell you MOST do not...they become irrate, even belligerent at the costs they already have to pay and think we're lying to them on a constant basis...I would challenge you to understand the customer a little more to get a better grip on the industry. Calguns is not necessarily the best cross section of the "average" firearm consumer.

You're upset because of what the government requires you to do. How much business would you get if the government did not require what they do of the consumer? If I could go online and buy a gun shipped to my house for 15-25% above your cost.... how much money would you make then?

[CSACANNONEER]

What you guys don't get is that you only see about 30% of the work involved in a PPT when you are at the store. 10 minutes for everything involved is a pipe dream.

Sorry, I've worked at a shop and done them in less than 10 minutes and I've talked to other FFLs who can do them in ten minutes too. Maybe it's time to drop the pipe and become more efficient.

[E Pluribus Unum]

You, Sir, have never worked or managed a gun store.


I don't mind doing PPT's because it brings people in. Would I do it for free? Hell no. You only see a quarter of the work that goes into a PPT when you are in the store.

You do not see the store add it to there book, store it, do all the other associated paperwork.


With the internet anyone can go online and order anything I have in my store for my cost. I already lose money on the $10 PPT but at least it stops some of the bleeding.

Oh, how we assume so much.

I used to work gun shows with a buddy of mine that owned a gun store. I do know how much work goes into a PPT and it's a whole lot easier today with the web interface than it was in the old days.

I have seen dealer costs in dealing with the gun shows. Some things have more mark-ups than others but my markup in computers is around 15%. You show me a gun store with a 15% markup and I'll eat my hat.

[jtmkinsd]

You're upset because of what the government requires you to do. How much business would you get if the government did not require what they do of the consumer? If I could go online and buy a gun shipped to my house for 15-25% above your cost.... how much money would you make then?

I've no problem with doing PPT's...I'd do them all day long if I could make money on it. The simple fact is I can't...you're right...if the requirements weren't there, I'd find another line of work. I don't care if the govt tells me I have to offer a service. I care they tell me I can't make a living doing it. If it was so important to them, why don't they waive the DROS fee on PPT's???

[Joe]

I was charged $50 on my last transfer off an internet purchase. Pretty standard in this area. If there was a store around that would waive that fee if I bought $75 worth of ammo or accessories at retail price from them, I'd gladly buy into that deal, and I'd also run every gun I purchased through that store.

I don't own a business, but it seems like such an arrangement would benefit all parties.

Anyone want to tell me why that would be a bad deal for either side?

Thats an ffl transfer not a ppt.

$50 for an FFL transfer is the absolute cheapest you'll find anywhere.

[Matt C]

I've no problem with doing PPT's...I'd do them all day long if I could make money on it. The simple fact is I can't...you're right...if the requirements weren't there, I'd find another line of work. I don't care if the govt tells me I have to offer a service. I care they tell me I can't make a living doing it. If it was so important to them, why don't they waive the DROS fee on PPT's???

I don't find it credible that you own a gun store.

[dachan]

$0.00 ..... That is the beauty of capitalism.

If this were high school debate, we could then ask which is failing us, capitalism or the concept that businesses can run giving away PPT's because if both were valid we would have someone somewhere filling the void with free PPT's.

[Matt C]

If this were high school debate, we could then ask which is failing us, capitalism or the concept that businesses can run giving away PPT's because if both were valid we would have someone somewhere filling the void with free PPT's.

Your model assumes everyone has perfect knowledge and is acting in their own best interest.

[jtmkinsd]

I don't find it credible that you own a gun store.

What you find credible is irrelevant. As I said, your theories are based on assumptions of your personal buying/spending habits. A poor model to apply so broadly.

10 minutes for a PPT? It can be done, if both parties are knowledgeable, have all the required documentation ready and have been to the store before. A very rare occurrence. Fifteen to twenty minutes is the normal time standard for a PPT.

[CSACANNONEER]

What you find credible is irrelevant. As I said, your theories are based on assumptions of your personal buying/spending habits. A poor model to apply so broadly.

10 minutes for a PPT? It can be done, if both parties are knowledgeable, have all the required documentation ready and have been to the store before. A very rare occurrence. Fifteen to twenty minutes is the normal time standard for a PPT.

OK, 15 minutes is still $40/hr EXTRA since the shop has to be manned (most shops will make the PPT parties wait if another customer wants help) right? BTW, any FFL who opened after 1991 knew full well that thhey were required to do PPTs for $10 each. Since they were completely aware of this, not one shop that opened after 1991 has the right to beach about this.